4e - Druid in a small group

[Eorran]

I've played a couple of one-shot adventures with very small groups (2 PC and 2 PC plus a companion character). Both groups had a Druid. Both times the Druid simply sucked.

Case 1 - Elf Druid lvl 9 and Human Rogue lvl 9. Setting: the characters survived a zombie apocalypse and track down the source of the undead. Result: druid dies. To be fair, the druid died as a result of mummy rot and bad rolls, but he was lackluster in most combats.

Case 2 - Dwarf Druid 6 and Goliath Warden 6. Setting: a wizard inadvertently opens a rift to the Far Realm, tainting the area with abberant energies. Result: Party quits (characters hand the mission back to the village elders and retire from adventuring) halfway through, after blowing everything they had just to survive the second encounter.

The Rogue and the Warden were good at their jobs (the Warden probably soaked about 250% of his HP in damage without dying), but the Druid just wasn't. His human form powers were neat, but Beast Form (especially Predator druids) just didn't impress. He's supposed to be a secondary Striker, but his damage is just too far behind, and the Beast Form powers don't seem very controller-y. Mostly, they force the enemy to attack the Druid.

So, a question for the playground. In a small group, would it make sense to give the druid Hunter's Quarry usable in beast form only?

[Oracle_Hunter]

So, a question for the playground. In a small group, would it make sense to give the druid Hunter's Quarry usable in beast form only?

Eh, I don't think that's much of a fix.

Have you looked at any Druid Handbooks? Here's a link to a random one on CharOp

[Urpriest]

Predator Druids don't really become striker-y until they've got a few feats and the right items under their belt. I could see the damage output feeling pretty minor at levels 6 and 9, especially if someone's just taking powers that look cool.

The most controllery druids indeed don't use beast form very often. They're usually Guardians, not Predators, though. Predators and Swarms generally control using melee combos, like push/prone and slow/immobilize/being a big sack of HP, which again take effort to put together. So an unoptimized druid can feel kinda weak. Then again, so do many unoptimized controllers.

[Mando Knight]

Claw gloves give a beast form druid an ability similar to Sneak Attack (+1d10 damage to enemies granting CA), and the Nov '10 errata updated Wild Shape to allow any non-weapon/implement power to be used while in beast form... this includes racial powers and class feature powers, meaning that a Druid/Ranger can use Hunter's Quarry 1/encounter while staying in beast form.

I'll second the Call of the Wild handbook. I haven't read through the whole thing yet, but it looks fairly well-thought-through, and doesn't dismiss Razorclaw Shifters out of hand (once they get Bloodied, like Dragonborn, they can become a bit nasty, and the +2 to two of the most common defenses helps with off-tanking quite a bit.).

Also, look at reflavoring everything. Unless you're a Swarm Druid (or a dog that shoots bees from its mouth when it barks), one of the best at-wills they get (Swarming Locusts) seems rather unfitting flavor-wise. Fix that by being clever.

[Tengu_temp]

Like almost all controllers, druids are not very good in small parties. The group needs at least three other members before they start to shine.

[RebelRogue]

Predator Druids don't really become striker-y until they've got a few feats and the right items under their belt.

With Bracers of Mighty Striking, a bit of Feats, and a little help from my Taclord character, I know our group's Predator Druid very much outdamaged the group's Avenger, mid-Heroic or so. Maybe not a good comparison (it's an avenger + the player never optimized too much).

[DragonBaneDM]

Nah, wouldn't make sense to give him the Quarry.

I can't believe I'm suggesting this... But the Essentials Druid might have what you're looking for.

I feel dirty...

But really, they have Healing Word, and are a lot more leader-ish. The Sentinel seems to be the best build from what I've heard.

In a group with a Warden and a Rogue you want to be playing a Leader.

[Eorran]

Thanks for the replies, and the guide. I'll look it over. I was looking at the Hunter's Quarry option for a quick-and-dirty fix, for a player who just wanted "a guy who turns into a bear and beats people up".

He did have the claw gloves, and they helped, but not much. Really, a striker would have suited the party better than a controller, but it's hard to re-fluff another class as "turns into a bear".

[tcrudisi]

Wow, I'm genuinely surprised. The Druid should have worked wonderfully in those parties. Throw in a level 4 magic item (claw gloves) and the Druid becomes a Rogue who controls the battlefield fairly decently. Add in a Staff of the Serpent and the damage is really rolling in while still controlling the battlefield well. A melee attack that deals 2d6+1d10+mods on an at-will makes the Rogue look kinda silly with 1d4+2d6+mods. And that's just with 2 okay items... take the right feat support and other items and you can quickly get that up to 3d6+1d10+insane mods through charging into a flank, which is where Predators really shine.

But yeah - it all depends on if the player knew how to optimize. Of course if he randomly picked powers without really understanding what they do, he can make bad choices. Ranged predator druids are okay, but they really need more than 1 other character to shine, unfortunately.

[Cuaqchi]

I would have to agree with the comments that it is party size, not the character that is getting him killed. Controllers have the fewest hit points, and powers that are designed to do low damage/high effect; so, if you have to do half the work (1 of 2 characters) you just won't seem that great.

Take a look at some of their summons/zones and read the rules on forced movement, together they can get some really entertaining combats where you barely even need to hit to deal boatloads of damage.