Understanding Negative LA

[Matamane]

For the purposes of this topic, ask yourself if an incarnate construct warforged be a legal application of the template. I'm assuming it is, but if there is a reason why it would not, please tell me.

Since the template lists a -2 LA, would that mean an incarnate construct warforged psion 8 would be considered an ECL 6 Character, or would the -LA be disregarded?

[kestrel404]

The Incarnate Construct template only reduces existing LA when the template is applied (I believe there is a relevant bit of text in the template itself to that extent). So the negative part of the LA only applies to reducing existing LA - it does not give you 'bonus HD' or anything like that, and it does nothing to reduce your ECL once you get past race. It also cannot offset the ECL increase you get from racial HD.

Basically, if you're going to use the Incarnate Construct template, you will want to do so on something that's got LA already - either the Warforged Charger (given how racial features are removed, probably not the best plan) or else by inherited templates BEFORE Incarnate construct.

Also, a good plan is to apply the Dragonborn template afterwards, since that template ALSO removes all racial features while simultaneously adding a few worthwhile racial traits.

[Bakkan]

If I recall correctly (AFB), the Level Adjustment entry for Incarnate Construct is LA: -2 (minimum 0). So an Incarnate Construct Warforged would have LA 0. As far as I know, there is no way for, e.g., an 8th-level character to be ECL less than 8.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

The fluff highly suggests the template is there to give life and intelligence to a construct, both of which warforged have. Therefore DMs should not allow it. RAW? Add Half-giant and lolthtouched beforehand and hold your nose.

[TroubleBrewing]

Crunch > Fluff, sadly.

[Ravens_cry]

Crunch > Fluff, sadly.

Well, Fluff helps judge the Crunches intention for the much more useful (though more individualistic) RAI, so while Fluff is not rules it ain't there just for decoration.
That's my thoughts anyway.

[Alleine]

If I recall correctly (AFB), the Level Adjustment entry for Incarnate Construct is LA: -2 (minimum 0). So an Incarnate Construct Warforged would have LA 0. As far as I know, there is no way for, e.g., an 8th-level character to be ECL less than 8.

Just looked it up, it is indeed LA -2 (Minimum 0). So no crazy overpowered extra levels shenanigans. You'd need extra templates to make it worth your while. Though I'm not entirely sure why you'd make an incarnate construct warforged. Lose all those yummy racial abilities? No thanks.

[Thurbane]

...and before anyone mentions it, Xvart is not negative LA. That's a typo from Crystalkeep.

AFAIK, the only official source of negative LA is Incarnate Construct...I believe some 3rd party book(s) have templates that bestow negative LA.

[AmberVael]

Just looked it up, it is indeed LA -2 (Minimum 0). So no crazy overpowered extra levels shenanigans. You'd need extra templates to make it worth your while. Though I'm not entirely sure why you'd make an incarnate construct warforged. Lose all those yummy racial abilities? No thanks.

I dunno. I'd take two LA worth of well chosen templates over standard Warforged racials.

[TroubleBrewing]

AFAIK, the only official source of negative LA is Incarnate Construct...I believe some 3rd party book(s) have templates that bestow negative LA.

Weren't Kobolds at one point -LA? It's not relevant NOW, of course, but I thought back in 3.0 they had a -1 or -2 LA.

EDIT: Insane fun thought for the day: Kobolds have a +0 LA, and the reptilian subtype. For those of you who have built the Black Blood Cultist using Scaled Horror before, how funny would a Kobold BBC be? (Bad, of course. -4 str HURTS. But funny as all get out.)

[Bakkan]

Weren't Kobolds at one point -LA? It's not relevant NOW, of course, but I thought back in 3.0 they had a -1 or -2 LA.

Well, according to the 3.5 MM, Kobolds with NPC classes have a CR equal to Level-3 instead of Level-1 as most monsters do, so at least a little of that was included in 3.5.

[VirOath]

Which was why Wizards produced a web enhancement to boost up kobolds, offering different options to giving the race the bump up it needed to be on the level with just core races, without adding LA.