Pathfinder: Step Up, Following Step, Step Up and Strike Feats

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

seems like these feats are fairly epic... (paraphrasing by me)

Step Up: whenever an opponent takes a 5ft step away from you, you may take a 5ft step after them as an immediate action. cannot use a 5ft step on your next turn, and if you take a move action, subtract 5ft from your distance.

Following Step: When using Step Up, you can move up to 10ft. You may still make a 5ft step on your turn, and nothing is subtracted from your move action.

Step Up and Strike: when using one of the above feats, you may make single attack at your highest BAB. this counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for that round, and using this feat doesnt count toward the number of actions you can normally make in a round.

Seems like this would be very potent against casters or archers that were unaware you had this feat... and coupled with Combat reflexes could be quite deadly. especially with a rogue that managed to make those attacks of opportunities also sneak attacks.

anyone have any thoughts about this? Any suggestions on how to use these feats to their full potential?

[NamelessNPC]

well, as you said, against archers and casters Step Up is really good if you have sneak attack. I don't like Following Step a lot because moving 10 feet is more or less the same as moving 5, barring some specific situations when you can set up flanking situations.

[peacenlove]

They are decent to good and (unlike Mageslayer and its friends) the enemy doesn't know you have them until too late.
Then again are a 3 feat chain, and therefore useful only for fighters, psychic warriors (but a very good choice for them), or for barbarians that took the Disruptive line of Rage powers (found in Advanced Players Guide), so you can take 2 AoO, one for moving and one for casting.
Of course combat reflexes is mandatory.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Any good for a rogue, you think? thats what Im looking at them for, a rapier and buckler UMD rogue. Not only would they not know I have the feat, they also might not know Im there, due to scrolls of invisibility and its greater sibling.

[peacenlove]

What level do you intend to use this tactic? I assume higher than 7th (4 feats needed).
A good plan after 10th level is to take the Step Up feat, convince your frontline melee buddy to take the whole chain, and rely on the Opportunist Advanced talent, so that your buddy and you set up a flank with your newfound movement.
As a rogue however IMO it is best to avoid feat chains since (even at pathfinder) rogues need a lot of feats to be resilient melee frontliners.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

yeah... level 8. I have a two extra feats because i took the Swashbuckler archetype from the APG... ( it allows you to take the Combat Trick Rogue Talent twice.)

So... Im basically trying to fill up my level 7 feat, and two rogue talents. (3 feats basically)

[Rasman]

Any good for a rogue, you think? thats what Im looking at them for, a rapier and buckler UMD rogue. Not only would they not know I have the feat, they also might not know Im there, due to scrolls of invisibility and its greater sibling.

yeah... level 8. I have a two extra feats because i took the Swashbuckler archetype from the APG... ( it allows you to take the Combat Trick Rogue Talent twice.)

So... Im basically trying to fill up my level 7 feat, and two rogue talents. (3 feats basically)

Tactically and Flavorfully I really like it for what you're trying to do. It makes me think of the fight in Robin Hood, Men in Tights, with the line "Parry, Parry, Thrust, Thrust, Gooooood." Except it's more of a dance than that example. It feels like prediction in terms of the way the feat works and SOMEONE should use the Chain and that's an excellent way to go about it.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

So basically... I should do it because someone has to? Seems like there is a logical fallacy there, but since you qualified it with a " tactically and flavorfully i really like it for what you're trying to do." I'll go with it.

Is there anything else I should consider taking with it? Combat Reflexes seems like a good idea...

[Draz74]

Combat Reflexes is almost always a good feat choice.

Not only would they not know I have the feat, they also might not know Im there, due to scrolls of invisibility and its greater sibling.

If they don't know you're there, they probably won't 5-foot step away from you.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

They probably will try when they mysteriously get hit. or try to 5ft step away from a possible visible opponent (one of my allies). failing that, they will try to cast see invisibility or another spell. failing that they will try to run away, probably forgetting to use a withdraw action, as that there is no visible opponent to withdraw from.

All of those would provoke an attack one way or another. *shrug* and thus, I am a happy rogue. and when I get Opportunist as a Rogue ability...

[Rasman]

So basically... I should do it because someone has to? Seems like there is a logical fallacy there, but since you qualified it with a " tactically and flavorfully i really like it for what you're trying to do." I'll go with it.

Is there anything else I should consider taking with it? Combat Reflexes seems like a good idea...

lol...not exactly...I just thought it sounded awesome :D, but it is there for a reason, so someone might as well...

Combat Reflexes is pretty much a must for this. I'd ALSO consider Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection, Deft Opportunist if you're looking at being a caster killer and don't want levels in a caster class. If you go fighter, then Disruptive would be awesome with Spellbreaker down the line. Sneak Attack of Opportunity seems nice as well if you're doing it with a rogue. Combat Patrol, if you're willing to take Mobility, fits the theme. Dastardly Finish is a strong feat for a Rogue to look at. That's all I have for you at the moment...gotta get back to work...

[Psyren]

Swift/Immediate action spells still do not provoke however; you'll need a way to deal with those to solidify your lockdown.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Swift/Immediate action spells still do not provoke however; you'll need a way to deal with those to solidify your lockdown.

Usually the DM just uses pathfinder spells for NPC: mostly, because thats what they are written up with, and because its easier to look out of one book. we have to run any 3.5 materials by him. Point is, there are few (if any) swift or immediate action spells in Pathfinder.

[Pechvarry]

If you're allowed to use 3.5 material in your PF game, a dip into Paragnostic Initiate (Complete Champion) can get you the ability to deny casting to a spellcaster you flank. I always thought it was neat but a bit useless in most cases (since the spellcaster will 5' out of flanking position before casting). A bit more flavorful for a rogue type than mage-slayer. Though I like it more for Spell-Thieves since it's a mage-slayer minus the caster level penalty.

[Psyren]

Usually the DM just uses pathfinder spells for NPC: mostly, because thats what they are written up with, and because its easier to look out of one book. we have to run any 3.5 materials by him. Point is, there are few (if any) swift or immediate action spells in Pathfinder.

Quicken Spell, however, is in Pathfinder; furthermore, Sorcerers don't even need Rapid Metamagic to use it anymore.

There is a small window during which they won't have many options as to useful spells to quicken, but that gap shrinks with levels. They also don't have long until they get Contingency.

Psionics has many more swift action powers, including powers that become swift with augmentation, and then Quicken Power on top of that.

[peacenlove]

Swift/Immediate action spells still do not provoke however; you'll need a way to deal with those to solidify your lockdown.

Teleport Tactician covers most of the spells a reasonable spellcaster would use to escape (even swift action ones).

[Psyren]

Teleport Tactician covers most of the spells a reasonable spellcaster would use to escape (even swift action ones).

You need 10 levels of fighter for that - not nearly as bad in PF as it is in 3.5 but still.

I won't deny that in Pathfinder, casting in melee is much more dangerous than it was in 3.5. But just because you provoke doesn't mean they're guaranteed to actually stop you. For instance, Mirror Image will continue to protect you as you cast even if your attack has devoted so many feats to the Step Up and Teleport Tactician lines.