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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    What makes a character dangerous in an anti-magic field? What features, abilities, or stats make them formidable when magic has been removed from the equation?

    EDIT - I should clarify, I'm think about frontlining melee guys here. Not how to keep magic users dangerous. What makes melee guys dangerous in an AMF? what abilities, stats, and qualities stand out the most in an AMF?
    Last edited by MammonAzrael; 2011-01-21 at 01:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field

    If your a sorcerer you can take the Draconic Heritage feat and then Draconic Breathe to do okay damage inside of an Anti-magic field. You max out at 18d6, which is kinda crappy, but the fact your enemy can't cast at all is nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field

    1. Being able to do magic anyway.
    2. Being able to win the action economy: lock down the opponent (grapple?) or add extra actions to himself (Factotum?) or his allies (White Raven Tactics?).
    3. Being able to dish out and take a LOT of damage.
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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    What makes a character dangerous in an anti-magic field? What features, abilities, or stats make them formidable when magic has been removed from the equation?
    Being a better fighter than your enemy .
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    Quote Originally Posted by BayardSPSR View Post
    Do you have 'craft: disturbing mental image' as a class skill?
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    If your a sorcerer you can take the Draconic Heritage feat and then Draconic Breathe to do okay damage inside of an Anti-magic field. You max out at 18d6, which is kinda crappy, but the fact your enemy can't cast at all is nice.
    Draconic Breath? I'm not seeing that feat in Dragon Magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    1. Being able to do magic anyway.
    2. Being able to win the action economy: lock down the opponent (grapple?) or add extra actions to himself (Factotum?) or his allies (White Raven Tactics?).
    3. Being able to dish out and take a LOT of damage.
    1. Fair enough. And how would you go about doing that?
    2. Action economy. Excellent.
    3. Fair enough...anything more specific? High attck vs Power attack vs bonus damage dice vs DR vs AC etc?


    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet-Devil View Post
    Being a better fighter than your enemy .
    Yes. How? What would be your recommended tactics?

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field

    Its in Complete Arcane. Most of them aren't very good, but I like the breathe weapons since they give you a blasting ability that works despite spell resistance and in AMF.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Its in Complete Arcane. Most of them aren't very good, but I like the breathe weapons since they give you a blasting ability that works despite spell resistance and in AMF.
    I'm afraid it states that Draconic Breath is a supernatural ability, which means it is suppressed in an AMF.
    Last edited by MammonAzrael; 2011-01-21 at 01:11 AM.

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    I'm afraid it states that Draconic Breath is a supernatural ability, which means it is suppressed in an AMF.
    Curses, I missed that part. Well that feat is utterly useless. Sorry to waste your time :(
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
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    Imp

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field

    As far as casting in AMF...

    The Initiate of Mystra feat allows you to cast in an Antimagic Field, as does Invoke Magic. The Twice Betrayer of Shar is a build that uses this sort of AMF abuse as part of its shtick.

    Other things that only sort of count:

    Certain spells, like Wall of Force, Prismatic Wall/Sphere, and most instantaneous conjurations can be cast into an AMF (from outside the AMF).

    The Archmage's Mastery of Shaping and the Extraordinary Spell Aim feat both allow you to sculpt an AMF so that you're not technically in it.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Curses, I missed that part. Well that feat is utterly useless. Sorry to waste your time :(
    Hey, no waste here! Just adding to the knowledge pool.

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    What makes a character dangerous in an anti-magic field? What features, abilities, or stats make them formidable when magic has been removed from the equation?

    EDIT - I should clarify, I'm think about frontlining melee guys here. Not how to keep magic users dangerous. What makes melee guys dangerous in an AMF? what abilities, stats, and qualities stand out the most in an AMF?
    Step 1: Acquire sword.
    Step 2: Acquire AMF.
    Step 3: Acquire enemy you wish to hurt. Place in AMF.
    Step 4: Grab enemy by the face. Yell something warrior sounding. Thrust sword through enemies face.
    Step 5: Repeat Step 4 until enemy is dead.
    Step 6: Repeat Steps 3-6 until out of enemies.
    Step 7: Have a "Conan" moment.
    Step 8: Drink lemonade.


    EDIT: Ok, a less funny answer. The real answer is to be your fairly standard Barbarian Pounce Charger smashystabbitywahey character, and just ensure you're always in an AMF and so are they. Your damage output is entirely non-magical in nature, so as long as we're assuming you and he are both in the AMF for the stabbity moment, they're going to die.
    Last edited by arguskos; 2011-01-21 at 01:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post

    Yes. How? What would be your recommended tactics?
    Essentially, you do it the old fashioned way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-pUc...eature=related

    If all magic has genuinely been removed (there's a spell in Lords of Madness called spark of magic or something that lets you cast low level spells even in an anti magic field) then it boils down to who's better at fisticuffs (or sword swinging, grappling, tripping etc, as the case may be).
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    Quote Originally Posted by BayardSPSR View Post
    Do you have 'craft: disturbing mental image' as a class skill?
    Attempt at converting the characters of Touhou to the world of D&D 3.5: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181050

    Attempt at converting Berserk characters to 3.5: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186155

    Attempt at converting Geralt of Rivia to 3.5:
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208270

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    It helps to be a monstrous race, really, because that means a larger portion of your stats does not come from magic, and you probably have some natural weapons and natural armor that you can lean on while your gear is shut down. One of the best options is of course to be a dragon, but the ECL required to get AMF combined with being a sufficiently dangerous dragon is punitively high (that, and area emanations do some pretty weird stuff when you're bigger than the area of the spell.)

    For a little lower end optimization that doesn't involve huge RHD+LA, consider the Swiftblade. Straightforward gish, relatively weaker for all the lost caster levels involved, but it does some really neat things with Haste and has one important advantage in this field: At level 6, its Haste spell (and all the attendant bonuses it gets for Hasting itself) becomes Extraordinary. So it can free-cast Haste, cast Antimagic Field, and proceed to chew you up with its enhanced full attacks and 50% miss chance. And enhanced speed, just in case you felt like trying to leave. Oh, and it's an arcane-based gish, so it's probably packing Improved Trip and a reach weapon in there somewhere, and your magical flight is disabled. Enjoy your next few rounds.

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    Well, there is always Wildshape; Dire Tigers work in an AMF just fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Well, there is always Wildshape; Dire Tigers work in an AMF just fine.
    Supernatural. Gets turned off. Dire Tigers do work, but Druids pretending to be Dire Tigers don't (their Animal Companions, on the other hand, can go in and eat face just fine.)

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    Supernatural. Gets turned off. Dire Tigers do work, but Druids pretending to be Dire Tigers don't (their Animal Companions, on the other hand, can go in and eat face just fine.)
    I'm fairly sure the transforming is, not the shape. Wow, my answers are sucking today. Fine, case Planar Binding and bind something to fight in the AMF.
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2011-01-21 at 01:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0627.html

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    A high Intimidate skill plus Imperious Command can keep an enemy cowering for an entire encounter. If you can demoralize without spending your standard action, or if you can demoralize and also attack, then your opponent is as good as dead. The Intimidating Rage feat in CW, or the Fighter 9 Zhentarim Soldier substitution level, or if you want to waste 13 levels to get CW Samurai 14, you can keep an opponent cowering in the AMF and you'll eventually hit them enough times to kill them unless they have some kind of natural regeneration or if your Rage runs out in the case of Intimidating Rage.

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    Anyone can be dangerous in an antimagic field. All you need is two chunks of uranium kept apart by a magical barrier.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    Good replies, thanks. Sounds like it is mostly what I expected the answer to be - hit things and be beefy.

    Scary note on the Swiftblade, I love that PrC. Monstrous races are a good idea. And I love that comic.

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    AMF affects a ten foot radius, which means that it can be defeated by 'walking briskly in one direction'. In order to be effective, you either have to kill them in one round with huge non-magical damage, or pin them in place by non-magical means.

    Grappling and Tripping help, as do nets, lassos, mancatchers and harpoons.

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    Ya grapple foe, foe stays in antimagic field. Get good light weapon damage or unarmed damage through feats or class features. Hmm maybe grapple + sneak attack. Ideally you can two man it or else use improved feint. Put strength before dex if you're doing both.
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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    There are two spellcasters I wouldn't mind having while in an Antimagic Field.

    1) Wizard 5 / Swiftblade 6 - Haste then becomes an extraordinary ability and still functions inside an antimagic field. If you dip 1 level of fighter to obtain weapon and armor proficiencies, then you can rule combat inside an an antimagic field.

    2) Wizard 8 / Effigy Master 5 - Constructs work normally inside an antimagic field, so they could still kick major butt. You just need to make sure you've made several effigys. I normally have a mount effigy, and several combat effigies with me at all times.
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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    A Soulknife keeps his mindblade magic with DC20 check (he can retry every round). Now that means he can still do decent damage.
    Good thing most DR's are turned off by Antimagic field (except material ones and DR/-).

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    Iron Heart Surge. (Even though I don't allow it in my games and doubt many DMs do.)


    Also, poisons are fun.

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    If you're a melee specialist using AMF's to kill casters, the trick seems to be being able to reach them (assume that they're off the ground, and a fair distance away from you), and then killing them before they have a chance to move out of the AMF.

    A level-adjusted race that gives you decent flying will help with the first of these. An ubercharger build or lockdown specialist might both be reasonable ways to deal with the second.
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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    Generally, when you use an AMF for melee, you either are some kind of lockdown build, or you cast a Wall spell beforehand to box them in. (Can you say 'cage match'?)

    Quote Originally Posted by HunterOfJello View Post
    Iron Heart Surge. (Even though I don't allow it in my games and doubt many DMs do.)
    Wait, what? Iron Heart Surge is one of the best things about being a Warblade! Why the hell would you ban it?
    Never mind, you meant that you don't let IHS negate AMFs, didn't you. My bad.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    Bottom line. Nothing makes a melee character dangeous in an AMF.

    Pick a monster from the MM, one of those ones that punches things, maybe a giant, or a glabrezu, or whatever.

    Compare it to a melee build with no magic items.

    What do you have? Well, you have a monster from the MM, and a bag of paste.

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toliudar View Post
    A level-adjusted race that gives you decent flying will help with the first of these.
    It's better to go with grafts, since they're not magical (mostly; some of them produce spell-like effects a few times daily). Check Fiend Folio for a couple of options: Feathered Wings and Membranous Wings.

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    Default Re: Dangerous in an antimagic field?

    Be a dragon.
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