[4E]Help with character creation?

[MachineWraith]

One of my friends is going to DM a campaign, which means I can finally play instead of DMing! I'm totally stoked. The only problem is that he's running a 4E campaign, and I have no real experience with the system. I know how to put a character together, and I know it's difficult to make a character that actually sucks, but that's basically it.

He's allowing all 4E WotC books.

In 3.5, my favorite race is the warforged, so I was leaning towards them again out of pure nostalgia. I'm favoring warlock for the same reason, though I've also got my eye on artificer, or perhaps a martial class so I can go into Warforged Juggernaut.

Any advice is welcome and appreciated!

[nightwyrm]

Warforges make excellent martial characters, especially battlerage fighters, due to their stat bonuses. They're also decent as con based warlocks for the same reason. Have you taken a look at the handbooks?

[Excession]

I you have PHB2, Warforged also make great Barbarians. The Warforged Juggernaut paragon path would also work well with the Barb; one of the standard Barb builds does a lot of charging. Barbarian is a very straightforward class to play, if you want that.

[mobdrazhar]

they make GREAT rageblood Barbs due to the Con and Str boni.

[Wings of Peace]

For reference, are Dragon Magazine articles considered 'books' as well?

[MachineWraith]

Unfortunately no, the DM has said that he doesn't want us using anything from Dragon Mag.

I've been looking at the warforged warlock, and it seems like warforged lean towards the infernal pact, what with their con bonus. Would that be a good route to take? I suppose I'd be a ranged striker then, focusing primarily on ranged damage?

In 3.5, I generally don't like the core martial classes as they tend to get boring rather quickly compared to even partial casters. I know that 4E essentially normalized abilities across all classes, so that's not really an issue anymore, but basic melee still kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I could play a martial class, but I'd rather play some kind of caster.

[BobTheDog]

A "kind of caster" that fits well with warforged is the warden.

Edit: which means a melee build, but with some magicky transformation powers.

[nightwyrm]

Unfortunately no, the DM has said that he doesn't want us using anything from Dragon Mag.

I've been looking at the warforged warlock, and it seems like warforged lean towards the infernal pact, what with their con bonus. Would that be a good route to take? I suppose I'd be a ranged striker then, focusing primarily on ranged damage?

Be aware that warlock tends to be on the lower end of the damage spectrum out of all the strikers, but they make up for it by being tough and have good controllish powers. Infernal locks are one of the higher damaging warlock options, but if you're con based, you might wish to consider vestige pact as well which give warlocks an almost buffer-ish quality. It all depends on what you'd like to play.

[MeeposFire]

Wait you want to play a warforged juggernaut but not play a melee class? I would say if you want to actually play a warforged juggernaut then you must go for a build that allows you to charge. That said this is my suggestion which will let you keep your spellcasting and charging

Go infernal (toughness), sorcerer king (damage), or vestige warlock (leader)

Take eldritch strike as an at will power instead of eldritch blast. This will allow you to make basic attacks which will make you able to charge and make use of your juggernaut abilities.

Take dual pact feat to pick a second pack and at will.

Also take reserve maneuver to "trade" out your paragon path power since str will not probably be that high.

This will give you a strong base.

[MachineWraith]

No, I was saying that if I were to play a melee class, I'd probably go for warforged juggernaut, just because nobody else in the party would take it.

So, despite being classified a striker, warlocks don't put out as much damage as other strikers? Would I still be able to keep up with the party, contribute equally?

[Reluctance]

Knowing which role you want to go into would help a lot. A common mistake for people transitioning editions is expecting 4e classes to play like their 3.5 counterparts. Utility casting is the domain of the Ritual Caster feat, for example, while barbarians and monks picked up a decidedly mystic cast. What you want your character to do is far more important than what class used to fill that niche.

[MeeposFire]

No, I was saying that if I were to play a melee class, I'd probably go for warforged juggernaut, just because nobody else in the party would take it.

So, despite being classified a striker, warlocks don't put out as much damage as other strikers? Would I still be able to keep up with the party, contribute equally?

Nobody is playing a melee class? You should be prepared then for sure.

Warlocks can attain numbers that are ok for strikers but they are not the heaviest hitting class (that would be the ranger). They make up for this by having powers with a lot of control elements an that helps them "take out" targets. They can also enter melee using eldritch strike and many sorcerer king pact powers. If you want to be a dual threat and fill the likely missing defender element you could go warlock paladin hybrid.

[tcrudisi]

So, despite being classified a striker, warlocks don't put out as much damage as other strikers? Would I still be able to keep up with the party, contribute equally?

If you play a Warlock, you'll be able to contribute equally, just not in damage. You will (should) still out-damage all non-strikers. When it comes to other strikers, you'll do less damage but bring more control to the table. It balances out.

If you want to see big, flashy numbers, then Warlock is not the way to go. Try Ranger (actually don't, that class is boring) or Barbarian. If you want to see bigger numbers than most of the people in your group while making one monsters life a living nightmare, then Warlock is the way to go. If you want to do mediocre damage but make every monsters life a nightmare, then Wizard is the way to go. Warlocks thread the needle between Wizard and Striker, basically.

But really - you should tell us what you want the character to do. The primary roles are important to fill: damage, defending allies, buffing allies, and debuffing monsters. All classes do one thing very well and one thing fairly well. Warlocks are primary strikers and secondary debuffers, they just give up some damage-dealing to get a little bit more debuffing. It's balanced. It's fun, too (my first character was a Warlock, although I've only played the one and I've played dozens of characters at this point).

But if you decide that you'd rather defend your allies or buff your allies, then Warlock is not the way to go. That's not to say that you can't play a "warlock", since you can play a Swordmage who defends his allies through a pact that he made with a devil. That devil gave him, in addition to awesome magic, the ability to cast through a sword and even use that sword competently. That's just an example. The flavor is easily adapted to any class, so don't get bogged down by the class names.

[Kurald Galain]

So, despite being classified a striker, warlocks don't put out as much damage as other strikers? Would I still be able to keep up with the party, contribute equally?

Yes, because party members (including most strikers) also contribute in other ways than damage-per-round.

Warforged warlock and warforged artificer are both perfectly viable combinations.

[Eorran]

I'd actually suggest you take a look at some of the martial classes, especially for your first game. Warlock's not bad, but I'd stay away from Wizard, Cleric, Druid. They are powerful and fun classes, but if you're coming from a 3.5 background, will feel very limited. Fighter, Barbarian, Warlord will feel greatly expanded from their earlier edition's capabilities.

That said, Warlock's a fun and flavorful choice, too.

[Grogmir]

Lots of good specifics regarding the Warforged and its combo.

As some general advice when choosing powers.

never weaken yourself from your main aim but do.

Try and give yourself powers that attack different defenses.
if possible give your self some blasts or bursts.
In 4th att is important but not the be all and end all. Consider your skills as well.
Don't worry too much about feats you get a lot of them. And certain choices in 3.5 are much stronger in 4th.

happy rollin.

[Sipex]

Also!

As per RAW you are allowed to re-train one skill, feat or power (choose one) at every level up. So you can feel free to take feats which are useful now but will be less useful later in levels.

[Blackfang108]

So, despite being classified a striker, warlocks don't put out as much damage as other strikers? Would I still be able to keep up with the party, contribute equally?

Yes. For an explanation, see my sig.

[MachineWraith]

When I said "nobody else would take one" I was referring to the warforged juggernaut class, not to melee in general. We have at least one person whose SOP is melee brute.

That said, after reading up a little more on fighter, barbarian, and the juggernaut, I find myself even less opposed to melee than before. I'm looking at some of the thunder-themed powers from the Primal Power book, and I think that combined with juggernaut could be quite fun. Thoughts?

[Eorran]

When I said "nobody else would take one" I was referring to the warforged juggernaut class, not to melee in general. We have at least one person whose SOP is melee brute.

That said, after reading up a little more on fighter, barbarian, and the juggernaut, I find myself even less opposed to melee than before. I'm looking at some of the thunder-themed powers from the Primal Power book, and I think that combined with juggernaut could be quite fun. Thoughts?

My friend has a Dragonborn barbarian, with a build wrapped around emphasizing her dragony-ness, and it synergized incredibly well with the barbarian. One crit managed to do upwards of 250 points of damage (at level 22, using a daily, an item daily, and a few other tricks).
I don't know the Juggernaut at all, but I imagine it'll work pretty well.

[kyoryu]

When I said "nobody else would take one" I was referring to the warforged juggernaut class, not to melee in general. We have at least one person whose SOP is melee brute.

That said, after reading up a little more on fighter, barbarian, and the juggernaut, I find myself even less opposed to melee than before. I'm looking at some of the thunder-themed powers from the Primal Power book, and I think that combined with juggernaut could be quite fun. Thoughts?

Looks like fun. Juggernaut would synergize quite well with a base class of Barbarian.

Coming from previous editions to 4th, you have to forget the "melee is boring" mindset, as it just doesn't hold water any more.

[ShaggyMarco]

A Thunder-based Barbarian/Juggernaut focusing on good push powers and charge powers could potentially be VERY fun.

You would basically be a bowling ball. There are a number of Barbarian Powers that let you charge someone, while either knocking into others or knocking back the guy you hit into lots of other people. That could be awesome.

[MachineWraith]

Yeah, I think that's what I'm gonna go with. Thunder Barbarian/Warforged Juggernaut. For the first few levels I'm gonna go with more damaging powers, then I'll retrain as I get closer to Juggernaut so that more of my powers toss things around.

[Blackfang108]

Yeah, I think that's what I'm gonna go with. Thunder Barbarian/Warforged Juggernaut. For the first few levels I'm gonna go with more damaging powers, then I'll retrain as I get closer to Juggernaut so that more of my powers toss things around.

Note that Thunderborn Wrath Barbarian is secondary controller. They're fun as Hades to play, but a lot of their powers are weaker on the damage but higher on the debuffs. (my favorite: Harbringer of Doom. level 7 1[w]+str damage, and a blast three that causes Vulnerable All to all enemies till the end of your next turn. )

I just noticed that there really aren't that many Thunder Keyword Barbarian powers. Unless I'm behind on Dragon, which is always possible.

And avoid Earthquake Dragon's Rage. You're likely to cause a lot of problems for the Party if you take that one.

[Kurald Galain]

I just noticed that there really aren't that many Thunder Keyword Barbarian powers. Unless I'm behind on Dragon, which is always possible.

You're not behind: Dragon has no hunder-keyword Barbarian powers to speak of.

[MachineWraith]

Note that Thunderborn Wrath Barbarian is secondary controller. They're fun as Hades to play, but a lot of their powers are weaker on the damage but higher on the debuffs. (my favorite: Harbinger of Doom. level 7 1[w]+str damage, and a blast three that causes Vulnerable All to all enemies till the end of your next turn. )

I just noticed that there really aren't that many Thunder Keyword Barbarian powers. Unless I'm behind on Dragon, which is always possible.

And avoid Earthquake Dragon's Rage. You're likely to cause a lot of problems for the Party if you take that one.

I've noticed that the Thunderborn tend towards the low end of the damage side. That's alright, I'm sure there will be at least one other striker that can benefit from my more "controllerish" aspects.

From previous games with this group, I expect us to be very heavy on the damage side of the scale, anyway, with a propensity for self-buffs, and one guy who will probably play some sort of leader or healer, or both if he thinks he can do it well.

[Blackfang108]

I've noticed that the Thunderborn tend towards the low end of the damage side. That's alright, I'm sure there will be at least one other striker that can benefit from my more "controllerish" aspects.

From previous games with this group, I expect us to be very heavy on the damage side of the scale, anyway, with a propensity for self-buffs, and one guy who will probably play some sort of leader or healer, or both if he thinks he can do it well.

Oh, they work great so long as there are other people attacking during combat (which is everyone, nowadays), and I've found mine to be a blast *snicker* to play. Mine's a Goliath, and we've just hit 10th level.

My party:
Telepathic Psion (Shardmind)
Paladin (Dragonborn) (Almost never shows up.)
Melee Cleric (Dragonborn)
Bow Bard (Changeling)
TWF Ranger (Human? I think. new character.)
TW Barbarian (Goliath)
Dex Avenger (Githzerai)

the important thing is to make sure a dedicated controller debuffs in a different way than you do, so the powers don't overlap. If anyone's playing a Wiz, Invoker, or Psion, make sure you talk re: power selection.

[Vknight]

I think your good but try & get feats that increase damage & the ability to knock enemies around which ever becomes more useful later should be what you then retrain towards.