[3.5] Am I Gimping Myself? A Druid Build Concept.

[Elric VIII]

First off, I'm not going to be playing this for some time. However, recent threads that I have read are making me rethink the validity of this build.

My original plan is:

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- Anthropomorphic Ape, replaceing both RHD with a class HD (by DM's permission).

- Druid 20, nothing fancy there.

- Taking VoP, refluffed to let me sacrifice the wealth to the gods of nature, rather than donating it to the needy. The RP elements of purity still exist with the added caveat of being a champion of nature above all self-interest.

- I will use the Druidic Avenger ACF.

- I would like to take the Whirling Frenzy Rage alternative (this seemed more ape-like).

- Using spontaneous divine caster (losing the SNA from my spells known to compensate for the Druidic Avenger).

I know that VoP is sub-optimal, but I really like the flavor of a Druid forsaking material wealth to further champion the cause of nature.

- Here's the thing, in a recent thread VoP came up and it was made to sound like shooting yourself in the foot. I would like to know, will it make me useless at later levels or can this be counteracted by the power level of Druid and Anthro Ape?

- Now, my plan is to be a buffer with a bit of blasting. Do the VoP and Rage bonuses persist while Wildshaped? And can I rage while Wildshaped?

- Is there a way to efficiently get more skills on my list? I was thinking about getting Nymph's kiss ASAP to become a high-skill character or party scout (tactfully avoiding a bad pun here). I'm mostly interested in Hide/Move Silently.

- Also, where can I find the stat adjustments of making a large creature into a medium one?

[Kaww]

- Here's the thing, in a recent thread VoP came up and it was made to sound like shooting yourself in the foot. I would like to know, will it make me useless at later levels or can this be counteracted by the power level of Druid and Anthro Ape?

As a full caster that gets wildshape it is not as big of a problem as it is with a fighter. You can do better with equipment tho.

- Now, my plan is to be a buffer with a bit of blasting. Do the VoP and Rage bonuses persist while Wildshaped? And can I rage while Wildshaped?

Some do, some don't. SU abilities don't. You see which are which.

- Is there a way to efficiently get more skills on my list? I was thinking about getting Nymph's kiss ASAP to become a high-skill character or party scout (tactfully avoiding a bad pun here). I'm mostly interested in Hide/Move Silently.

There are feats that let you treat some skills as class skills. Would have to check for hide and move silently tho.

- Also, where can I find the stat adjustments of making a large creature into a medium one?

Pg. 291 MM1

[Runestar]

- Also, where can I find the stat adjustments of making a large creature into a medium one?

Alternatively, dungeonbred template, dungeonscape.

[Elric VIII]

*good stuff*

Alright, I had hoped that the various class abilities would provide a counterpoint to the VoP to let me be mid-tier. Thank you for the reassurance.

Alternatively, dungeonbred template, dungeonscape.

Huh, that's a pretty cool template.

I just had a thought, if I'm rolling for stats I don't need to worry about the effect on the stats of a large ape, since medium gets no bonuses or penalties, right?

[Runestar]

I just had a thought, if I'm rolling for stats I don't need to worry about the effect on the stats of a large ape, since medium gets no bonuses or penalties, right?

Not true, medium creatures still can get stat modifiers. For instance, an orc would get +4str.

You are still a full-caster (and druids make great blasters+terrain modifiers, so there is a limit to how much you can suck.

[Tyger]

Yeah, a druid is one of the primary classes that can take VoP and not be shooting themselves in the foot, mostly due to wildshape.

Where the fighter / monk etc. have to have magical items to fly or breathe underwater or turn really small to get into crevices etc, the druid can accomplish this with enough wildshape forms.

Will you be as powerful as a regular level 20 druid pimped out with magic items? Unlikely. Will you still make the melee characters jealous. Probably.

[Combat Reflexes]

You can do what you want, you're still playing a Druid, a Tier 1 class. You can nerf and gimp and de-optimize and still be better than the party's fighter.

You're a FULL CASTER for Obad-Hai's sake!

@V: Oh, and congrats for creating one of those rare no-hippie druids

[Elric VIII]

Will you be as powerful as a regular level 20 druid pimped out with magic items? Unlikely. Will you still make the melee characters jealous. Probably.

Really, this is all anyone can ask for.

You can do what you want, you're still playing a Druid, a Tier 1 class. You can nerf and gimp and de-optimize and still be better than the party's fighter.

You're a FULL CASTER for Obad-Hai's sake!

This was my plan, but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't overestimating the class.

This will be my first time playing a Druid. I mostly stay away from hippies, but it seemed to fit the character I wanted to play this time.

[Asheram]

Some do, some don't. SU abilities don't. You see which are which.

A thing that people forget about Exalted feats. They're All Supernatural.

[Elric VIII]

A thing that people forget about Exalted feats. They're All Supernatural.

Not all of the VoP bonuses are, but sadly Exalted Strike is. That could make things hard, but I can still cast Greater Magic Fang. The AC bonuses are too, but that hardly matters.

Now, it says thet the rest of the feats are all supernatural. What are the ramifications of losing the Exalted Wild Shape feat while Wild Shaped?

Is there a feat that lets you keep Su abilities while Wild Shaped?

EDIT: I found a feat that will let me buy Hide/Move Silently ranks for only 1 skill point. It's from Heroes of Battle. It's called Guerilla Warrior...

[Asheram]

Only intelligent characters of good alignment and the highest moral standards can acquire exalted feats, and only as a gift from powerful agents of good—deities, celestials, or similar creatures.
These feats are thus supernatural in nature (rather than being extraordinary abilities, as most feats are).

An excerpt of Book of Exalted Deeds..

Doesn't this mean that whenever you're in an antimagic fields All abilities and gifts associated with an exalted feat (such as all the benefits of VoP) are null and void for that time?

Just curious upon the ruling about these things.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wild Shape works like Alternate Form as per errata, you would keep 100% of your VoP benefits when Wild Shaped:

• The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.
• The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its new form.
• Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.

[Elric VIII]

Wild Shape works like Alternate Form as per errata, you would keep 100% of your VoP benefits when Wild Shaped:

• The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.
• The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its new form.
• Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.

That's even better, thanks for the ruling.

[Kaww]

A thing that people forget about Exalted feats. They're All Supernatural.

If Rage is SU, then I'm Batman.

[Asheram]

If Rage is SU, then I'm Batman.

Ofcourse it isn't. Where'd you get that from?
All I said was that Exalted feats are supernatural. (And overcome by doubt, asked about a ruling on my excerpt from BoED Here)

[Runestar]

If Rage is SU, then I'm Batman.

Since when have we said that you weren't?