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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Worm that walks and liches

    Is it possible to turn a lich into a worm that walks? Just wondering what the playground thought of this.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    it might be possible to go from lich to worm that walks, but that depends on whether a lich "leaves behind a corpse" when it dies...my understanding of undeath is that once you get a lich to 0 HP, it is "destroyed" but it doesn't necessarily leave behind a corpse (in the normal sense) because the lich's phylactery causes the lich to "reappear 1d10 days after its apparent death"...so RAW, i don't know if it is possible

    however, i don't think there is any reason why a worm that walks can't become a lich..all it requires is the rituals and the creation of its phylactery...which for flavor reasons could be one of the maggots or worms of the worm that walks, but for crunch reasons really shouldn't be incorporated into the wtw anyway
    Originally Posted by Vael View Post
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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Soren Hero View Post
    however, i don't think there is any reason why a worm that walks can't become a lich..all it requires is the rituals and the creation of its phylactery...which for flavor reasons could be one of the maggots or worms of the worm that walks, but for crunch reasons really shouldn't be incorporated into the wtw anyway
    The biggest reason a WtW can't become a lich is because its type does not qualify. A Worm that Walks is an Abberation, and Lich can only be applied to a Humanoid.

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapak View Post
    The biggest reason a WtW can't become a lich is because its type does not qualify. A Worm that Walks is an Abberation, and Lich can only be applied to a Humanoid.
    i always miss those type requirements
    Originally Posted by Vael View Post
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    It's possible to go from Worm that Walks into DRY lich, though. Dry Lich doesn't require humanoid, it requires any living creature. And you're a living creature. You're lots of them!

    Desert Maggots does kind of have a weird disconnect, though. Worms don't last long in deserts, unless they're sandworms. Then you can reenact Dune.

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Khatoblepas View Post
    It's possible to go from Worm that Walks into DRY lich, though. Dry Lich doesn't require humanoid, it requires any living creature. And you're a living creature. You're lots of them!

    Desert Maggots does kind of have a weird disconnect, though. Worms don't last long in deserts, unless they're sandworms. Then you can reenact Dune.
    I don't have the relevant reference book, but I thought Dry Liches put their organs in jars instead of having a standard phylactery? A Worm that Walks doesn't have a heart or a liver or anything else to put in there.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Khatoblepas's Avatar

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapak View Post
    I don't have the relevant reference book, but I thought Dry Liches put their organs in jars instead of having a standard phylactery? A Worm that Walks doesn't have a heart or a liver or anything else to put in there.
    They have bug organs. They can put bug organs inside the jars. It's not like maggots don't have a stomach or a heart or anything.

    Thousands of tiny maggot livers. Pleasant.

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Khatoblepas View Post
    Thousands of tiny maggot livers. Pleasant.
    Now imagine yourself as the adventurer tasked with hunting them all down.

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapak View Post
    The biggest reason a WtW can't become a lich is because its type does not qualify. A Worm that Walks is an Abberation, and Lich can only be applied to a Humanoid.
    There's the variant illithid lich in Libris Mortis. Maybe you could repurpose that?
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    This is what a properly motivated caster is like, people. Concussive explosions able to rip the front end of a hummer in twain and Chilling is using them to filter out those who don't make the cut. Those unworthy of his true magistic might.

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    There's the variant illithid lich in Libris Mortis. Maybe you could repurpose that?
    The Alhoon/Illithilich was in the lords of madness book, not in the Libris Mortis. There are pretty much no references to the Mind Flayers in the Libris Mortis, but it is a forgivable mistake to make. But I really, really doubt that the Alhoon could be used for an undead WtW. However, the Swarm-shifter template, which was probably what you were thinking of, is almost perfect for this task, though you will need some stat retouching.
    "Abase yourself before me, you groveling insect!"-Sutekh.

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Czin View Post
    The Alhoon/Illithilich was in the lords of madness book, not in the Libris Mortis. There are pretty much no references to the Mind Flayers in the Libris Mortis, but it is a forgivable mistake to make. But I really, really doubt that the Alhoon could be used for an undead WtW. However, the Swarm-shifter template, which was probably what you were thinking of, is almost perfect for this task, though you will need some stat retouching.
    I was actually thinking of the Alhoon. I just spaced on the correct book, I guess. I was basically thinking of a Lich template that could be used on abberations. The Swarm-shifter template, now that I'm reminded of it, looks promising to me, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Able' Xanthis View Post
    This is what a properly motivated caster is like, people. Concussive explosions able to rip the front end of a hummer in twain and Chilling is using them to filter out those who don't make the cut. Those unworthy of his true magistic might.

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    The alhoon was also in monsters of faerun.
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    I like the "hobo" in there.
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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Sophistemon View Post
    Now imagine yourself as the adventurer tasked with hunting them all down.
    Big deal. Aumvor the undying (a lich from champions of ruin) managed to split his phylactery into hundreds of parts, each of which must be located and destroyed for him to stay dead.

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    Big deal. Aumvor the undying (a lich from champions of ruin) managed to split his phylactery into hundreds of parts, each of which must be located and destroyed for him to stay dead.
    Yeah, but if I'm not mistaken that required epic magic to accomplish.
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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    Big deal. Aumvor the undying (a lich from champions of ruin) managed to split his phylactery into hundreds of parts, each of which must be located and destroyed for him to stay dead.
    Now take the maggot phylacteries (still technically tiny, but what the hell), and split them up with this guy's epic spell. You're probably ECL30 anyway, so epic spellcasting is not beyond you.

    Now everyone has to spend five times as long destroying you, since you have five phylacteries from the get go, and each is split up into hundreds of pieces.

    Then you Dispel Magic/Polymorph Any Object on some of them into Elans, Mindrape them into having memories (and a Good alignment), and you have walking, talking phylacteries that are immortal, and noone's gonna wanna kill them, since you put them into positions of power, like the cribs of princes... and the hands of a hapless farmers. That lone farmboy is gonna grow up and want to adventure.

    Whoopee!

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    And then your epic arch-rival researches a spell called "Phylacterycide" which tracks down and destroys each and every one of your phylacteries...
    Last edited by J.Gellert; 2011-01-28 at 08:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    WtW=Ooze.

    Also, the template just says it can be applied to "any evil wizard or sorcerer"

    The only part where it might have difficulty reacting with a Lich is

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicKitKat View Post
    WtW=Ooze.

    Also, the template just says it can be applied to "any evil wizard or sorcerer"

    The only part where it might have difficulty reacting with a Lich is
    Unfortunately, it was an Ooze in 3.0, now it is an Abberation because of the update :(

    There's a massively cheaper ritual that can be performed with a chance of failure. Not counting bonus spells, a base wizard has a 40% chance of becoming a Worm that Walks. Add in Focused Specialist, and you get another 18%. A Ring of Wizardry I & II gives you 8%, and pearls of power give you more.

    40
    18
    08 +
    __
    66%
    That means you need 44 pearls of Power (level 1) to have a 100% chance of rising as a Worm that Walks.

    Always do this step first. Don't become a Lich then a WtW, become a WtW then a Dry Lich, since you can't go Lich->WtW or WtW->Lich

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Ugh, worm that walks, creepeth me out. Seriously. Liches? Bah, your a walking talking skeleton with an unending thirst for knowledge. I can dig it. Vampires. Hey, as long as you don't bite me, its cool. But worm that walks? Kill it, kill it with fire!
    Though the idea of thousands of tiny organ jars sounds adorable somehow . . .
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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Khatoblepas View Post
    Now take the maggot phylacteries (still technically tiny, but what the hell), and split them up with this guy's epic spell. You're probably ECL30 anyway, so epic spellcasting is not beyond you.

    Now everyone has to spend five times as long destroying you, since you have five phylacteries from the get go, and each is split up into hundreds of pieces.

    Then you Dispel Magic/Polymorph Any Object on some of them into Elans, Mindrape them into having memories (and a Good alignment), and you have walking, talking phylacteries that are immortal, and noone's gonna wanna kill them, since you put them into positions of power, like the cribs of princes... and the hands of a hapless farmers. That lone farmboy is gonna grow up and want to adventure.
    Isn't this Harry Potter.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Khatoblepas View Post
    Now take the maggot phylacteries (still technically tiny, but what the hell), and split them up with this guy's epic spell. You're probably ECL30 anyway, so epic spellcasting is not beyond you.

    Now everyone has to spend five times as long destroying you, since you have five phylacteries from the get go, and each is split up into hundreds of pieces.

    Then you Dispel Magic/Polymorph Any Object on some of them into Elans, Mindrape them into having memories (and a Good alignment), and you have walking, talking phylacteries that are immortal, and noone's gonna wanna kill them, since you put them into positions of power, like the cribs of princes... and the hands of a hapless farmers. That lone farmboy is gonna grow up and want to adventure.

    Whoopee!
    The phylactery of the only lich I ever played was a grain of black sand. Try to find that in a desert of black sand.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Khatoblepas View Post
    Now take the maggot phylacteries (still technically tiny, but what the hell), and split them up with this guy's epic spell. You're probably ECL30 anyway, so epic spellcasting is not beyond you.

    Now everyone has to spend five times as long destroying you, since you have five phylacteries from the get go, and each is split up into hundreds of pieces.

    Then you Dispel Magic/Polymorph Any Object on some of them into Elans, Mindrape them into having memories (and a Good alignment), and you have walking, talking phylacteries that are immortal, and noone's gonna wanna kill them, since you put them into positions of power, like the cribs of princes... and the hands of a hapless farmers. That lone farmboy is gonna grow up and want to adventure.

    Whoopee!
    Now do their descendants further the phylacteries? If they did that would be awesome.

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Khatoblepas View Post
    Now take the maggot phylacteries (still technically tiny, but what the hell), and split them up with this guy's epic spell. You're probably ECL30 anyway, so epic spellcasting is not beyond you.

    Now everyone has to spend five times as long destroying you, since you have five phylacteries from the get go, and each is split up into hundreds of pieces.

    Then you Dispel Magic/Polymorph Any Object on some of them into Elans, Mindrape them into having memories (and a Good alignment), and you have walking, talking phylacteries that are immortal, and noone's gonna wanna kill them, since you put them into positions of power, like the cribs of princes... and the hands of a hapless farmers. That lone farmboy is gonna grow up and want to adventure.

    Whoopee!
    But... what if that farmboy went and adventured, and then, unbeknown to the Lich that Walks, makes the lich his personal enemy? He would have to kill himself to kill the lich!

    That would be... evil!
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    NOTHING is simple. NO EXCEPTIONS. No, not even that.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    But... what if that farmboy went and adventured, and then, unbeknown to the Lich that Walks, makes the lich his personal enemy? He would have to kill himself to kill the lich!

    That would be... evil!
    As a plot twist, it turns out the entire adventuring party is the Lich's philactery. What a twist!

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    As a plot twist, it turns out the entire adventuring party is the Lich's philactery. What a twist!
    Exactly and think if it was you r parents were the originals? You would have to choose to kill your whole family! Do you kill it now and sacrifice everybody or do you find an alternative such as being cursed to contain this evil for all time?

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by MeeposFire View Post
    or do you find an alternative such as being cursed to contain this evil for all time?
    Isn't this Diablo?
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Isn't this Diablo?
    Kinda, but since there was a Diablo II, we know how that turned out.

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Kinda, but since there was a Diablo II, we know how that turned out.
    This time less corruption but more hopeless.

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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by MeeposFire View Post
    Exactly and think if it was you r parents were the originals? You would have to choose to kill your whole family! Do you kill it now and sacrifice everybody or do you find an alternative such as being cursed to contain this evil for all time?
    And the next twist! Before the adventurer gets even to that part (s)he destroys all of their magical gear trying to find out which bit of it is bringing the Lich back before the adventurer finally realizes that it is them that is bringing the Lich back!

    Plus it sets the Lich up for a wonderful "I am your (great grand) Father!" moment!
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    Default Re: Worm that walks and liches

    Quote Originally Posted by FelixG View Post
    And the next twist! Before the adventurer gets even to that part (s)he destroys all of their magical gear trying to find out which bit of it is bringing the Lich back before the adventurer finally realizes that it is them that is bringing the Lich back!

    Plus it sets the Lich up for a wonderful "I am your (great grand) Father!" moment!
    I am your father's creator and you, YOU are my essence!

    I have got to use this.
    Last edited by MeeposFire; 2011-01-29 at 01:44 AM.

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