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    Default [PrC] The Cold is Spreading, and I am Its Voice; Sing the Songs of the Night

    Knight of Snow



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    “The ice blinds and slices. It cuts deep, and shatters bone with a single ragged breath. The ice cuts deep, it breaks into the dreams and nightmares of those who feel it, and feeds on them. The ice blinds and slices, and it drinks in the heat of pain, the aching flame of death. It skins and flays, steals and scrambles, it destroys.

    The ice sings. The ice creates. The ice cries tears of blue blood, and bleeds out of gaping wounds. The ice crafts, the ice sculpts the frozen sun in the sky. The ice drips and dangles, it clears and clouds. The ice makes, the ice breaks. The ice screams with the sun.

    The ice tears. The ice shatters. The ice breaks upon the hardened rock. The ice reforms. Refreezes. Remakes itself, whole.

    The ice blinds the warriors of the cold. The ice slices those who fight it. The ice cuts deep, and shatters their bones with a single ragged breath. The ice cuts deep, and breaks into the dreams and nightmares of its enemies, and feeds on them. The ice blinds and slicers, and drinks in the heat of pain, the aching flame of death. It skins and flays, steals and scrambles, it destroys all that oppose.

    The ice sings to me. The ice created me. The ice cries tears of blue blood upon my skin, and bleeds out of my gaping wounds. The ice crafts, the ice sculpts the from sun in the sky, and I slice it open. The ice drips and dangles, clears and clouds my vision. The ice makes me. The ice breaks me. the ice screams into the sun, and I scream with it.

    The ice tears. The ice shatters. The ice breaks upon the hardened rock. The ice reforms. Refreezes. Remakes itself, whole. I tear. I shatter. I break upon the hardened rock. I reform. Refreeze. Make myself whole, in its image.

    I am the snow.

    I am the cold.

    I am the ice.

    We are the Knights of Snow.

    Sing to the night, and chant the hymns of the frozen sun. Sing to the night.

    Sing to the night.”


    The Knights of Snow are a dedicated group of Paladins who worship winter. They seek to bring the frozen rime to all of the world, and with the cold harshness of a winter storm they march. They oppose warmth, light, and fire, and all that represent it or that fight to protect the life on the planet. They are ruthless and cold, like that snow that they seek to embody, but still work for the greater good. They honestly believe that by bringing cold to the planet they will be making it a better place. Ice leaves no room for evil, no place for destruction. No room for death.

    The ice that they worship is a purifying ice, one that cleanses all, and brings those who have sinned back into the frozen light. The ice cleans and brightens, and reflects goodness throughout it, all the while killing with a cold justice, and a harsh judgement.

    BECOMING A KNIGHT OF SNOW
    How you would normally become a member of this prestige class.

    ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
    Base Attack Bonus: +7
    Alignment: Any Lawful
    Skills: Sense Motive 10 ranks, Survival 5 ranks
    Feats: Self Sufficient
    Special: Smite Evil, Lay on Hands
    Special: Must join the Knights of Snow

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    DM Sidebar: Joining the Knights of Snow

    The Knights of Snow are a fairly open group, willing to accept most members. They have but one rule; the prospective Knight of Snow must spend a night buried entirely in snow. They must wear the traditional full armor of the Knights of Snow, and pray the whole night, fasting and reflecting. After this, they are indoctrinated into the Knights, and start training with the Knights. They spend one month at least as a probational period, training constantly.


    Class Skills
    The Knight of Snow's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Survival (Wis).
    Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int

    Hit Dice: d10

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Smite of Snow 1/encounter

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Oath of Snow

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Nightsong

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Aura of Ice

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Smite of Snow 2/encounter

    6th|
    +6
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Purification

    7th|
    +7
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Icesong

    8th|
    +8
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Roar of Winter

    9th|
    +9
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Smite of Snow 3/encounter

    10th|
    +10
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Knight of Ice and Snow[/table]

    Weapon Proficiencies: The Knight of Snow gains proficiency with Iceplate as well as the Pickblade.

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    Iceplate:
    This is a large fullplate, designed to be used in heavy or harsh weather. It has the Armor Bonus, maximum dexterity and Check penalty of Full Plate. It contains padding and furs, as well as several life saving supplies that can feed the wearer for two days in harsh conditions. The wearer of the plate gains a +3 bonus to survive in Harsh weather, and the Iceplate has another usage. When the Iceplate reaches below freezing temperatures itself, which usually requires the actual temperatures to be 30 to 40 degrees colder (farenheit or celsius, really), the wearer gains a +3 bonus to their armor class, and any natural weapons that hit the Iceplate take 2 points of cold damage.

    Iceplate requires that the wearer either gains proficiency through a special feat, or that they gain it through a class feature that specifically grants Iceplate. If they do not have those requirements, they do not gain any of the benefits of Iceplate, besides the emergency supplies, and take a -4 penalty to all attacks, armor class, and checks that use Strength or Dexterity as a main statistic.
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    Iceplate Specialization
    Prerequisites: Heavy Armor Specialization, Base Attack Bonus +4
    Benefits: You gain proficiency with Iceplate.


    Pickblade:
    The pickblade is a large sword that has a deadly sharp spike on the pommel, capable of penetrating full plate and thick ice. The blade itself appears as a longsword, with one serrated edge. When the Pickblade reaches below freezing temperatures itself, which usually requires the actual temperatures to be 30 to 40 degrees colder (farenheit or celsius, really), it gains several enhancements. It’s damage increases from 1d10 to 2d6 damage, and it gains a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it. The pick end of the weapon deals the same amount of damage, but piercing, but deals quadruple damage against ice, packed snow, or solid inanimate objects, such as stone or metal.

    The pickblade is an exotic weapon, and those who do not have proficiency with it take a -4 penalty to all attack roles made with it.

    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Damage (S)
    |
    Damage (M)
    |
    Critical
    |
    Range
    |
    Weight
    |
    Type

    Pickblade|1d8|1d10|19-20/x2|--|10 lbs|Slashing/Piercing[/table]
    Cost: 2000 gp.


    Smite of Snow (Ex): Once per encounter, the Knight of Snow may make a single melee attack as a standard action. He adds his Charisma bonus as a Sacred modifier to that attack, and deals an extra 1d6 per Knight of Snow level he possesses as cold damage. Against evil creatures, he deals an additional amount of cold damage equal to his Charisma modifier. He gains an additional use of this ability at fifth level, and at ninth level.

    Oath of Snow (Ex): Starting at second level, the Knight of Snow gains a pool of cold damage, equal to his hit dice times his charisma modifier, times two. He may deal an amount of cold damage with a touch attack as a standard action.

    Nightsong (Ex): Starting at third level, the Knight of Snow gains low light vision out to 120 feet, or doubles the range of any existing low light vision they possess. He also gains a +2 bonus to attack rolls while in total darkness, and at night. At sixth level, he gains Darkvision out to thirty feet, and the Darkvision increases to sixty feet at ninth level.

    Purification (Su): Starting at sixth level, the Knight of Snow may purify with a touch. This effect is identical to the Cure Disease or Cure Poison spells, but the target takes 2d6 cold damage in addition, as their bodies are purged of the impurity. This effect costs 10 points of cold damage from the Knight of Snow’s Oath of Snow cold damage pool.

    Aura of Ice (Su): Starting at fourth level, the Knight of Snow may exude an aura around himself as a swift action, reducing the temperature of the atmosphere within 30 feet by 16 degrees, and reducing the temperature of any items that touch him by 32 degrees, over a period of a minute. Magical items may make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Knight of Snow levels + Charisma modifier) to avoid this drop in temperature. Turning this aura on and off is a swift action.

    Icesong (Ex): Starting at seventh level, during conditions of heavy snow, snowstorms, blizzards, or hail and hailstorms, the Knight of Snow gains a +4 bonus to all survival checks, and gains a +2 bonus to all damage rolls. He also gains Cold and Fire resistance equal to his hit dice. At tenth level he becomes immune to Cold damage.

    Roar of Winter (Su): Starting at eighth level, the Knight of Snow may summon a snowstorm once per day. All enemies within 100 feet of the Knight of Snow take 1d6 cold damage per round that the snowstorm persists. If the Knight of Snow concentrates as a move action each round, the snowstorm becomes a blizzard, and deals 2d6 damage per round, and transforms the area that it affects into difficult terrain. This effect lasts until the end of the encounter, and the blizzard lasts as long as the Knight of Snow concentrates, and then immediately fades.

    Knight of Ice and Snow: Starting at tenth level, the Knight of Snow becomes an elemental with the Good and Lawful subtypes, as well as the Cold subtype. Unlike most creatures with the cold subtype, the Knight of Snow does not take extra damage from Fire damage. Unlike other elementals, the Knight of Snow may be resurrected.

    Knights of Snow and Paladins may progress between both classes without restriction, and Paladins do not lose abilities for being of a non-Lawful Good alignment, but still must be of a Lawful alignment.

    PLAYING A KNIGHT OF SNOW
    Playing a Knight of Snow is very similar to playing a Paladin, but far more strict on the need for purity, and a usually more ruthless personality and strategy.
    Combat: The Knights of Snow tend to slaughter mindlessly, with ruthless cruelty. They usually end opponent’s lives with their swords, or with frost, but they enjoy a medley of ways to kill. Most combats with Knights of Snow usually have the Knight start out smite-happy, smiting evil targets first, usually, but really just smiting any who seem weak and pathetic. They have absolutely no pity for anything that lives, and will proclaim as such to any willing to listen. They do this not because they take pleasure in killing others, but because it is the most efficient method of fighting, and anything that is less efficient will get the Knight of Snow killed.
    Advancement: Many Knights of Snow progress in Paladin after finishing up the class, and almost all Knights of Snow finish the class. They tend towards heavy armor melee combatants, so the Knight class, any of its subsidiary prestige classes, or any prestige classes designed for lawful melee characters tend to be good choices.
    Resources: The Knights of Snow tend to be a very tight nit group, and if any Knight of Snow seeks help with purification, or with the spreading of the Cold, a fellow Knight would be happy help him or her. Money and monetary compensation is often not as possible, but a Knight certainly might be able to help on other ends.

    KNIGHTS OF SNOW IN THE WORLD
    The blizzard soared. I could feel my heart pounding in my chest, even as he approached. His sword seemed to sweat with cold, shimmer the air. His face was obscured, but I could see the white, cold, hardened and uncaring eyes that lay beneath it. I never cried. I think that was why he spared me. Even as he slaughtered my whole family, my whole village, my whole world dying around me, no tears fell to my checks. They were frozen in my eyes.
    Ythros Parathos, death seeking one.

    The Knights of Snow have a hard time in life. They tend to be fairly zealous in their need to purify the world of corruption, and are often not appreciated much by the “corruption”. Most simply think they are crazy, and there are no governments that really actively help the Knights of Snow.
    Daily Life: Some part of the Knight’s day is spent in prayer or contemplation, usually on topics like “how will the world becoming cold help everyone” “how wonderful the cold is” and other such scintillating issues. Many adventuring Knights of Snow have to spend a lot of effort not to kill the few who act sort of corrupt, but they know that in the end the cold will win out over the impure, even if they must struggle with it in the current moment.
    Notables: There are several notable members in the Order of the Knights of Snow, one of the most famous being the founding member, Ithkos Sinbreaker, bringer of the Azure Flow, the Purifier. He has been known to “purify” entire towns and armies at a time. Another prominent member is Kareniq Gothrim, the White Flame, who broke off from the Order, and now works to repent herself by hunting them down, and using their own abilities against them.
    Organizations: The Order of the Knights of Snow is the only organization dedicated entirely to the Knights of Snow, and most places that might take them in tend to think of the Knights as being slightly mad.

    NPC Reaction
    Many generalize the class as a bunch of lunatics who worship the snow, and the ice. That is, essentially, what the Knights are, but it is very generalized. Many Knights are treated as such because they take to purifying those who oppose them, and that is sort of justified, but in the eye of the Knight, those that think they are crazy are going to be purified when the Cold comes, even if they are not purified now.

    KNIGHTS OF SNOW IN THE GAME
    The Knights are not on the level of the wizard, but are fairly powerful, probably as, or more powerful than many Paladins. Even without spells, they can dish out quite a bit of damage, but still are probably not much more than tier four at the highest.
    Adaptation: The Knights of Snow can probably be adapted into any campaign setting, as a crazy sect of Paladins. In a tropical campaign, their insanity would be even more eventful and showy, and in a cold themed campaign, they would be especially powerful, given that the climate is already suited to many of their abilities. They could also be refluffed as a group of good paladins who help those in need, and who survive the harsh winters.
    Encounters: Many, if not all, encounters with the Knights of Snow, will be aggressive, usually from the Knight’s side. The Knights of Snow are absolute in the fact that those who are impure and who directly oppose them must be purified. Those who attack them are obviously impure.

    For the purposes of the Knights of Snow, the term Impure or Impure Ones means the following:

    Impure: To have committed a crime, or crimes against society or against the teachings of the Church of the Coldest Night, that is extreme and impossible to compensate for with any action.

    Examples: Attacking a Knight of Snow for no reason, and with no provocation. Killing innocents. Stealing without need, and where honest work would be acceptable. Running away from one's duties, if it would endanger another.

    The Coming Cold

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    The Coming Cold is the belief, held mainly by the Knights of Snow, that the end of the world is coming soon, and that those who are "pure"-- that is, who worship the snow, those who act especially "good", or other special cases, will be taken by the Cold into the Glacier of Night, and they will live there forever. The Cold can only kill so many, though, so the Knights of Snow believe that they must purify the world first, so that the Cold has an easy of a time as possible.

    The Coming Cold itself is worshiped as a religion, but represents an event, and not a god, and therefore cannot give out domains and spells directly. However, many gods of Ice and Snow are happy to give out spells and domains to those who would worship the Cold, even if they are simply worshiping the coming of the end.

    The Coming Cold tells that those who are "good"-- those that follow the ways of the Church of the Coldest Night, which include benevolence, understanding, strength in the face of adversity and courage, are the ones who will be allowed into the Glacier of the Night, and that those that die acting in such a way immediately are sent to the Glacier.
    Last edited by unosarta; 2011-01-29 at 05:30 PM.
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    Default Re: [PrC] The Cold is Spreading, and I am Its Voice; Sing the Songs of the Night

    Alignment: Any Lawful
    So you could be evil yourself, and smite evil as well?

    Oath of Snow (Ex): Starting at second level, the Knight of Snow gains a pool of cold damage, equal to his hit dice times his charisma modifier, times two. He may deal an amount of cold damage with a touch attack as a standard action.
    So basically a standard 18 Cha paladin multiclassing to this can get this ability at the earliest of 9th level, or 72 points without maxing charisma.

    I presume he may use it all at once or intersperse it? Still, 72 damage as a touch is pretty nasty. Not thinking it's overpowered per se, but it could get rough.

    Maxed out, lesser aasimar or some such cheese for a 22 Cha, few items to easily boost it to 28...

    162 damage in one go. And that's not even going really nuts.

    Perhaps it doesn't need to be multiplied by 2?

    Purification (Su): ...This effect costs 10 points of cold damage from the Knight of Snow’s Oath of Snow cold damage pool.
    Ah, this balances it out a bit. Still, wouldn't hurt to lower it a little regardless. Really like the concept of this ability. Very cool.

    Icesong (Ex): Starting at seventh level, during conditions of heavy snow, snowstorms, blizzards, or hail and hailstorms, the Knight of Snow gains a +4 bonus to all survival checks, and gains a +2 bonus to all damage rolls. He also gains Cold and Fire resistance equal to his hit dice. At tenth level he becomes immune to Cold damage.
    Why fire resistance out of curiosity?

    Knight of Ice and Snow: Starting at tenth level, the Knight of Snow becomes an elemental with the Good and Lawful subtypes
    What if they have an evil or neutral alignment?

    Knights of Snow and Paladins may progress between both classes without restriction, and Paladins do not lose abilities for being of a non-Lawful Good alignment, but still must be of a Lawful alignment.
    See, while I like this class and I know where you're going with it, I just can't see these fellows being good as written. They're just too cold-blooded and merciless. Lawful Neutral I could go for, but... they have the 'end justifies the means' mentality that is pretty derned near evil.

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    Default Re: [PrC] The Cold is Spreading, and I am Its Voice; Sing the Songs of the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    I just can't see these fellows being good as written. They're just too cold-blooded and merciless. Lawful Neutral I could go for, but... they have the 'end justifies the means' mentality that is pretty derned near evil.
    I'd have to agree. Nothing I've read in the fluff or crunch points to these guys being Good. In fact, what I have seen points to them being much closer to Evil, maybe Neutral. For example:
    Combat: The Knights of Snow tend to slaughter mindlessly, with ruthless cruelty. They usually end opponent’s lives with their swords, or with frost, but they enjoy a medley of ways to kill. Most combats with Knights of Snow usually have the Knight start out smite-happy, smiting evil targets first, usually, but really just smiting any who seem weak and pathetic. They have absolutely no pity for anything that lives, and will proclaim as such to any willing to listen.
    This is not Good (according to the alignments as written in the DMG). It is, at best, Neutral, but most likely Evil.

    An interesting class, though.
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    Default Re: [PrC] The Cold is Spreading, and I am Its Voice; Sing the Songs of the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    So you could be evil yourself, and smite evil as well?
    Yup. That is one of the main points of the class; in mindset, the Knights of Snow are doing good things, for the good of everyone, come the Coldest Night, but their actions tend to be very evil.

    However, it all depends on one's stance towards alignment. For instance, say there is a Paladin who attacks and kills some warriors from a village. Just for kicks, let's say that they are Orcs (just so that it is easier to justify by the Paladin). To the Paladin, these clearly lawful evil creatures deserved to die. They could harm people in the future, and (for our purposes, let's just go with this) they lived nearby a lawful good town. The Paladin wasn't willing to sacrifice the town on the off chance that the Orcs didn't attack it; if the Orcs did, they would have slaughtered many. Now, from the Orc's point of view; a Paladin just came and killed our sons, our brothers, our husbands, our fathers, and then justified it because they are "evil". Do not they, even then, deserve a chance? Does everyone who is evil act in exactly the same way?

    The Paladin is completely justified in his reasoning. So are the Orcs. So who is really evil here? That is a personal question that the Paladin and the Orcs have to ask themselves, and that is something that requires a lot of reflection; one cannot simply "know" that they are evil or not (although the Paladin could technically detect it, but those spells are really stupid in an alignment related discussion anyway). By putting creatures in a false dichotomy, where one side must be evil, and where the other must be good, is entirely false when accounting for real-world emotional responses and the actual thoughts of characters.

    For instance, the Knight of Snow will go out of his way to protect his brothers; he would die for someone he thought worthy, and he usually treats most with empathy and kindness. But if he feels that a creature must be purified, then he will do so, in the most efficient way possible. To those he purifies, he probably seems evil. To himself, and those that know him personally, he seems good. So where is the divide, here?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    So basically a standard 18 Cha paladin multiclassing to this can get this ability at the earliest of 9th level, or 72 points without maxing charisma.
    Shoot, I meant it to be his Knight of Snow levels times his Charisma modifier times two. I will change it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    I presume he may use it all at once or intersperse it? Still, 72 damage as a touch is pretty nasty. Not thinking it's overpowered per se, but it could get rough.
    Yes. I was thinking maybe that he can only deal up to two times his level per touch attack made. does this seem balanced?


    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    Ah, this balances it out a bit. Still, wouldn't hurt to lower it a little regardless. Really like the concept of this ability. Very cool.
    I originally had absolutely no idea what this ability would do, and tried to make it just do Cure Disease/Cure Poison once per day, but then came upon the idea of a pool of Cold damage, and then got the idea for tying them together.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    Why fire resistance out of curiosity?
    Just an added bonus. I was thinking that the Knight would get hardier in general, but I can see now that that is probably not the most thematic of additions. I will edit that out.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    What if they have an evil or neutral alignment?
    Good point, I will update it to be with just the Lawful subtype.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    See, while I like this class and I know where you're going with it, I just can't see these fellows being good as written. They're just too cold-blooded and merciless. Lawful Neutral I could go for, but... they have the 'end justifies the means' mentality that is pretty derned near evil.
    Ends justifies the means =/= evil. Ends justifies the means = neutral. Going out of ones way to make the ends as cruel and terrible as possible = Evil, just as going out of ones way to make them as kind and benevolent as possible is Good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melayl View Post
    I'd have to agree. Nothing I've read in the fluff or crunch points to these guys being Good. In fact, what I have seen points to them being much closer to Evil, maybe Neutral. For example:
    This is not Good (according to the alignments as written in the DMG). It is, at best, Neutral, but most likely Evil.

    An interesting class, though.
    Is combat really the only thing that determines a characters alignment? Well, the rogue kills people all the time, I guess he is automatically evil now. That paladin? Well, he killed someone; definitely evil. That Cleric who dominates the king and uses him to take over the kingdom, and subjugate the people to his will? Well, I mean, he didn't really kill anyone, and he is doing it for the greater good, so I guess he is good?

    I will edit the fluff to be less overtly "the Knight of Snow is a killing machine", but that is how they are trained. If something is attacking them and threatening them, they are going to retaliate with as much force as possible, to be the most efficient. Surviving in the Cold doesn't give you the chance to think about "good" and "evil". Just surviving takes all of your energy, and taking your focus off of that will get you killed.
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    Default Re: [PrC] The Cold is Spreading, and I am Its Voice; Sing the Songs of the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Is combat really the only thing that determines a characters alignment? Well, the rogue kills people all the time, I guess he is automatically evil now. That paladin? Well, he killed someone; definitely evil. That Cleric who dominates the king and uses him to take over the kingdom, and subjugate the people to his will? Well, I mean, he didn't really kill anyone, and he is doing it for the greater good, so I guess he is good?

    I will edit the fluff to be less overtly "the Knight of Snow is a killing machine", but that is how they are trained. If something is attacking them and threatening them, they are going to retaliate with as much force as possible, to be the most efficient. Surviving in the Cold doesn't give you the chance to think about "good" and "evil". Just surviving takes all of your energy, and taking your focus off of that will get you killed.
    It is not that combat determines alignment. It is the attitude of the character towards his opponent. His outlook on it. The outlook of the Knight of Snow (as per your fluff), the "slaughter mindlessly, with ruthless cruelty," and the "just smiting any who seem weak and pathetic." A Good person will still kill in combat, but they won't kill if they don't have to. These guys seem to kill for the fun of it, and kill indiscriminately. The "have absolutely no pity for anything that lives," also points to a non-Good alignment. Good characters tend to have pity and concern for others. As written, the only others these guys care about are the other Knights.

    I can see how they would view themselves as Good. They are, however, the only ones who would view them as Good.

    In regards to your example:
    However, it all depends on one's stance towards alignment. For instance, say there is a Paladin who attacks and kills some warriors from a village. Just for kicks, let's say that they are Orcs (just so that it is easier to justify by the Paladin). To the Paladin, these clearly lawful evil creatures deserved to die. They could harm people in the future, and (for our purposes, let's just go with this) they lived nearby a lawful good town. The Paladin wasn't willing to sacrifice the town on the off chance that the Orcs didn't attack it; if the Orcs did, they would have slaughtered many. Now, from the Orc's point of view; a Paladin just came and killed our sons, our brothers, our husbands, our fathers, and then justified it because they are "evil". Do not they, even then, deserve a chance? Does everyone who is evil act in exactly the same way?
    That depends. Were the orcs actively attacking anyone? Had they actually attacked anyone? Did the paladin have reasonable proof of this? If the answer to these questions is "No", then the paladin did indeed commit an evil act. Killing someone who has the potential to commit an evil act is, in itsself, an evil act. See Kore (and the commentary on him) in the Goblins comic. And no, not everyone who is evil is evil in the same way or acts in the same way.
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    Default Re: [PrC] The Cold is Spreading, and I am Its Voice; Sing the Songs of the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Melayl View Post
    It is not that combat determines alignment. It is the attitude of the character towards his opponent. His outlook on it. The outlook of the Knight of Snow (as per your fluff), the "slaughter mindlessly, with ruthless cruelty," and the "just smiting any who seem weak and pathetic." A Good person will still kill in combat, but they won't kill if they don't have to. These guys seem to kill for the fun of it, and kill indiscriminately. The "have absolutely no pity for anything that lives," also points to a non-Good alignment. Good characters tend to have pity and concern for others. As written, the only others these guys care about are the other Knights.

    I can see how they would view themselves as Good. They are, however, the only ones who would view them as Good.
    They kill because they do have to. They kill "indriscriminantly and ruthlessly" because they know that if an opponent is left standing, they will attack the Knight back, and they might kill them. As for the pity part; you say "tend to". The fluff is similar, in and of the fact that the way the fluff goes isn't necessarily everything that a Knight does, and the fluff does not represent every Knight. As for caring only about other Knights; where does it say that the Knights must hate every non-Knight?

    I am just going to go ahead and categorize the term "impure" or "impure ones" within the context of this prestige class as I had termed it in my head, which might help.

    Impure: To have committed a crime, or crimes against society or against the teachings of the Church of the Coldest Night, that is extreme and impossible to compensate for with any action.
    Examples: Attacking a Knight of Snow for no reason, and with no provocation. Killing innocents. Stealing without need, and where honest work would be acceptable. Running away from one's duties, if it would endanger another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melayl View Post
    In regards to your example:That depends. Were the orcs actively attacking anyone? Had they actually attacked anyone? Did the paladin have reasonable proof of this? If the answer to these questions is "No", then the paladin did indeed commit an evil act. Killing someone who has the potential to commit an evil act is, in itsself, an evil act. See Kore (and the commentary on him) in the Goblins comic. And no, not everyone who is evil is evil in the same way or acts in the same way.
    In order; no, yes, yes.

    So, if the Paladin lets the Orcs go, and he has reason to believe they might attack a village or town, and they end up doing it, how, under your logic, do they reconcile themselves? Would they not, in their own eyes become evil? Does this simply not matter in any way?

    "Well, killing those Orcs would have been a baaad thing to do. So, letting them kill a village full of innocents in the future, of which I have previous evidence as well as the known element of their alignment? Yeah, that is fine."
    Last edited by unosarta; 2011-01-29 at 05:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    NOTHING is simple. NO EXCEPTIONS. No, not even that.

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