The Real Power Gamers [Any]

[Volos]

When you hear the words 'power gamer' it usually brings to mind the player that takes five classes, the caster with the strangest combination of spells, and the guy who always asks for the obscure feats from third party sources. But I've discovered a new kind of power gamer... DMs.

It came as a shock to me, long time gamer and dungeon master, to discover that there are DMs who play the game for no other reason than to feel empowered by their position as Rule 0. At first I tried writing it off as the players being too out of control or it was just a certian play style I wasn't familiar with. But after attending enough sessions and watching enough games from the sidelines, I was unable to deny the truth... there are DMs who do this sort of thing to their players.

Here's an example of what happened.

The players came to the game session with their character sheets. There had been two or three sessions with these current characters. The DM takes the sheets, tears them up, and tells everyone to make new characters. The next hour is spent building characters to the new specifications. Once that is done there is an hour and a half of gaming. The session starts with a fort, will, and reflex save. The players are told that they fail the saves, even the players who hit nat 20s, they still fail. Everyone wakes up in an 'unknown' place. Clerics cast divination spells and make knowledge checks that by all rights should give them some clues. Apparently that fails. It's a dungeon, so the character with Knowledge (Dungeoneering) gives it a shot. He beats a 40. Knows nothing. This just goes on until the players are frustrated and decide to move on. Evil undead appear and attack the party. They kill the undead (a wright, and some zombies) and recieve no XP or treasure. The DM decides to change their alignment to Evil because they killed the undead. The paladin looses all his class features, the cleric loses touch with his god, and the druid is suddenly a blighter and her animal companion leaves her. The DM claims that the undead were good and that they shouldn't have killed them. (He actually told the paladin they were evil when he detected evil... so not sure where he got that from.) When players come up with unique ideas or try to use their class features, feats, or spells to do something they are punished by being put into a deeper illusion or by having their stuff taken away. When players pretend to like his game and/or suck up to him they get new shiney items or class levels in made up classes as a reward. He controls the player's actions by making the game unbearable if they don't do as he says, but give them tiny rewards often enough to sucker them into staying at the table. Somehow it works and this sort of insanity continues for a whole hour and a half. Once it was all over, he told the party that the entire thing was an illusion and that none of it ever happened. Apparently this DM runs Call of Cthulhu but instead of a dark god who is going to end everything it's just a game where everything is illusions until you go mad. From what the players and ex-players of his games tell me, he gets off on making everyone miserable in his games and never allows anyone to do what the rules clearly state that they shoudl be able to do. I'm not sure why anyone still plays with him, and I have saved a few from his terrible games by invitiing them to mine. I tried explaining why his game wasn't fun for anyone and what he could do to fix it, but then his behavior just got worse. Now only the most desperate of gamers play with him, though I still don't know why. Perhaps they haven't known anything better...?

I'm just wondering, has anyone else had a DM do something like this? Even on a smaller scale, has your DM used the game as a position of power over the gaming group as a whole? Have you as a DM done this? What do you think of this sort of DM? And have you encountered and successfully corrected this sort of behavior in a DM (yourself or someone else)? I'd like to help this guy realize what he is doing if he doesn't already. And if he knows what he is doing and is just playing that way to be a terrible person it isn't any wonder that only two people play with him now.

[DragonOfUndeath]

I'm amazed 2 people still play with him. That guy is an as*. I would leave as soon as the Alignments changed. Maybe before that when he tore up sheets.

[Savannah]

See, that's not a "power gamer". Power gamers are generally nice people. That DM would be what I call a "[word-I-can't-say-on-this-forum]". I've heard of that sort of thing, yes, but never played with one. I have played with a guy who was so fond of his DMPCs that he'd bring them back campaign after campaign. It got to the point that regular players could instantly identify a DMPC and list what he was like....I don't play with that guy anymore.

[Czin]

That's the sort of person who I'd say has "an anti-imagination" not only is he a total and absolute control freak, but his plot is so horrible that as someone who loves to write and make stories that it's like a physical punch to the gut for me. He doesn't deserve his players at all and should be ashamed for being such a horrible DM on all accounts. He's no power gamer, if he were; he'd simply be making minmaxed/optimized monsters, what we have here, is a straight out arseweasel.

[Greenish]

Seriously, if you want your players to start locked into a dungeon, you just tell them that that's where they are, instead of the farce with unpassable saving throws.

But still, I wouldn't call that a power gamer, since that usually means people trying to build a really powerful character (or, if DM, really powerful opponents), not someone going power-tripping by tormenting players.

[dsmiles]

That's insane. He has players left?

[DragonOfUndeath]

I agree with a bunch of people in this Thread. This guy isn't a Power-Gamer. He is an As*hole. Making stuff up doesn't a power-gamer make.

[Lurkmoar]

And I thought my first GM who subjected my characters to fates worse then death for mere slights was bad...

Seriously... how have the players not revolted yet? o_O

Does the guy own the building or something? I'd call that person a few choice names, but not a power gamer. Griefer is one. Troll is another.

[Vknight]

If I had stories about this I would mainly be insulting myself but I do have three good ones from times when I have stepped from behind the screen.

Case 1 (4e)

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At a wizards event. I bring in a Level3 Gnoll for the level 1-4groups. The Dm asks if I've done events like this before my response. "No?" he then tells me to make a level 1 character because it only fair. Every one is level 3and 4. They all vote for the high level encounters. I plan to lower my characters level to 1 DM tells me no. Instead tells me to make a new character. I make a Monk. 25minutes in I figured out who the big bad is and try to trick the guards that I work for him with a 'Bluff' Nat20 his response you fail & they beat you. So I walk away 1Surge Latter.
We later come back and I'm pissed at this point after an encounter with Goblins were they got a surprise round and dropped me to 1. I use I daily and devestate them with what should be a surprise round. Dm tells me I can't do that and we got to roll intiative. I still go first.
The guards survive and peg me with there encounter powers and action points. I am now dead not unconsious dead. He tells me that I can make a new character for the next event.

Case 2 (2e)

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I am playing this on a different forum. The Dm is constantly changing everything that he has told us earlier. The druids were supposedly 1group noe there 2 one which is at war using gurrelia tactics well the others just yell at the king. They were originally one group my plan get them to take down the king under pretences of a peace settlement. Nope now they are 2different groups. My idea to make Golems can't until level10. We end the campaign at level 10. My characters goal for Lichdom as a good Lich nope, only evil and not until level 10.
The story is currently focusing on the cleric who is a jerk to my character for him doing things logically. These include telling the Fighter who in character she likes to take the lead. She also has wings that give her flight that she never disscussed with the Dm. My guy has multipul personality disorder and the Dm says I'm being unfair playing him like that so he is now evil.
I killed a thief that stole some of our money the Dm says that the people are less trusting of you. This happened in a dungeon.
The Cleric in character does not know this happens but has become even more jerkish and Lawful Stupid.
Does not help that the Dm keeps praising her somehow she is got a great prophecy that is even known amognst the elves.
It has steadly gotten worse.

Case 3 (4e)

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Railroading. Good guy also a friend of mine like Case 2. Infact Case 2 played a Lawful stupid Fighter in this that hated my character for killing evil creatures.
At one point we encounter an Arch-Druid calling us worshippers of Tiamat. No reason infact we just killed a lot of Tiamat worshippers about 1-2hours in game time ago. His reasoning, we have a Tiamat symbol and my character is destroying some statues of Tiamat.
I agree to come along so those every other person but he knocks us out and takes us back to the Elf village he is from. The same village I in character am from. Think about that.
We are almost executed. But saved for no reason none we did not get to defend ourselves they just decided they wouldn't. So we take the 2magic items we have and ask for 2items of equal level that could be found in a elven village. They come back with some 'Perfect Shot Bracers' (Something like that) and a 'Lightning Halberd'.
The Halbred sounds good right. Nope are Fighter is a Brawler not Great Weapon.
I say we leave the village and we try but every level we are interrupted by more elves saying things and generally trying to stop us or steal from us.
We finally make it out then the Dm informs us the village is burning behind us.
Both in and out of character I say we leave them. The Fighter he goes back in and the Dm awards him 100role play Xp. Me I take a 50Xp deduction for bad rp. My response they don't like me I respect that I was raised by the villagers but I'm not going to risk my neck for them.
The Shaman agrees with me and takes no Xp penalty because he is unaligned.
The Dm then informs me I am now evil for what I have just done.

[Grommen]

A power gaming DM would be surprised that someone rolling a "20" would fail the check. He would naturally assume that all the characters are made like his and he would make NPC equal. Most likely encouraging your all to make better characters.

You mileage might vary.

This DM is a power tripping fool. Leave him be, and he will go away.

[Vknight]

A power gaming DM would be surprised that someone rolling a "20" would fail the check. He would naturally assume that all the characters are made like his and he would make NPC equal. Most likely encouraging your all to make better characters.

You mileage might vary.

This DM is a power tripping fool. Leave him be, and he will go away.

I agree I think we should all post are own stories as I have done

[bloodtide]

The example DM was not a power gamer. He was a power tripper combined with a god complex. I consider myself a power gamer type DM. My game is status quo and 'unfair' by the modern use of the word. Everything in my game is powerful, power is everywhere.


I've seen plenty of Power Trip God Complex Dms though.....hundreds. A lot of people who are powerless in real life look to role playing as a chance to have real power. The same way lot of people who are ignored in real life see role playing as a chance to be heard and even worshiped. Simply put, in real life, most people are followers. Only a handful of people are leaders, and only a handful of them are even any good at it. Then you take the typical want-to-be DM:they work a boring job(say in the mail room), they have poor social skills(few people even talk to them), they are not good at expressing themselves(no one listens even when they talk) and to top it all off they have physical social handicaps(slow speech, not funny, unattractive). Then you present them with a RPG game where they are in control, and they let it go to their head.

The second, lesser type, is a Dm who attempts to be a Power DM, but can't handle the Power. A Power DM runs fast paced powerful adventures, with lots of Power. But it's a skill, like anything else.....you can't just sit down and do it as you want to. For example, I've done the 'transported to the mysterious dungeon' about a thousand times. Plenty of players love the fast pace 'lost in a dungeon' type feel of such a game. They can be great fun, if done right. When done wrong...well, you see the results.


In either case, it's hard to help such a DM. They simply won't want any help. They will think that they are perfect and can do no wrong. You could talk to them, but it's doubtful they would listen much. You'd need to be skilled in psychology to get around their mental blocks. anything less then that and they will just feel attacked and go all defensive.

In the natural course of things, most power tripping god complex DMs loses their players(no surprise). One thing that does work is to 'steal' the players and offer them a better game. Even just a glimpse of a good game can set them free.

[rayne_dragon]

The players came to the game session with their character sheets. There had been two or three sessions with these current characters. The DM takes the sheets, tears them up, and tells everyone to make new characters.

This alone would be enough for me to walk out of the game, if not outright tell the DM off. I can't even imagine anyone showing this kind of blatant disrespect at a gaming table.

[dsmiles]

Even just a glimpse of a good game can set them free.

If you build it, they will come.

[Vknight]

This alone would be enough for me to walk out of the game, if not outright tell the DM off. I can't even imagine anyone showing this kind of blatant disrespect at a gaming table.

I agree, which is why it made me really sad when my players walked into a death trap we had to end the session next week we come back. They decide ok lets go into the death trap even after we had all these warning and 1week to think about it!
They died 10minutes into the session. We never speak about that campaign, it makes the Wizards player cry some nights.

[starwoof]

I don't think I've ever encountered a DM that was that bad. I have not had a lot of bad DnD experiences, though I did get evicted from my house because of one of my character's actions though.

I had one DM who was pretty very controlling, now that I think about it. He really hates full casters, and when we played a party that consisted mostly of full casters he just tried to kill us and make us play fighters. Stuff like fighting six hill giants at level 5. He never ever gave us any treasure either. Once he actually brought in another adventuring party to kill us. They were all mage hunting dwarf warrior types. He even brought in the players he had make the characters. They stomped us but we decided to ally with them rather than go for MAD, then we killed the BBEG (a blue dragon) who our necromancer and I then raised as a skeleton.

So... I have very mixed feelings about that game.

EDIT: I myself am a power gamer DM, of a sort. I like my monsters to be tough and strong, but I also charge up my players a lot. I have a lot of houserules that increase the power of characters, such as adding their CON score to their hp at level 1.

[Vknight]

I don't think I've ever encountered a DM that was that bad. I have not had a lot of bad DnD experiences, though I did get evicted from my house because of one of my character's actions though.

I had one DM who was pretty very controlling, now that I think about it. He really hates full casters, and when we played a party that consisted mostly of full casters he just tried to kill us and make us play fighters. Stuff like fighting six hill giants at level 5. He never ever gave us any treasure either. Once he actually brought in another adventuring party to kill us. They were all mage hunting dwarf warrior types. He even brought in the players he had make the characters. They stomped us but we decided to ally with them rather than go for MAD, then we killed the BBEG (a blue dragon) who our necromancer and I then raised as a skeleton.

So... I have very mixed feelings about that game.

That sounds both awesome and sucky. Iwant to met this guy trade notes but also smack him upside the head.

[huttj509]

Power Gamer is different from Powertripper.

:-)

[Vknight]

Not by much though

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Silver lining: He's not Psycho DM as presented by That Lanky Bugger.

[Vknight]

Exactly if he was Psycho Dm who knows what else could have happened

[DragonOfUndeath]

If he was Psycho DM *shudder*
Thank God he ISN'T Psycho DM

[starwoof]

My last DM actually evicted me from my house.

[Greenish]

Silver lining: He's not Psycho DM as presented by That Lanky Bugger.

I should hope no one will have misfortunes to rival Lanky's.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Yeah being stabbed AND Psycho DM is NOT something you would wish on someone.

[umbrapolaris]

I've seen plenty of Power Trip God Complex Dms though.....hundreds. A lot of people who are powerless in real life look to role playing as a chance to have real power.

but they are still powerless, depend of you. when, with my 1.94m, 94kg and pair of army boots, a DM i knew start to abuse his position; i told him with a very calm voice, that he become "annoying" and if he continue in this way he may be "smite" by me. suddenly the game becomes more enjoyable for everyone after that.

[Kylarra]

but they are still powerless, depend of you. when, with my 1.94m, 94kg and pair of army boots, a DM i knew start to abuse his position; i told him with a very calm voice, that he become "annoying" and if he continue in this way he may be "smite" by me. suddenly the game becomes more enjoyable for everyone after that.

I strongly feel that resorting to physical threats is one of the worst possible ways to resolve a problem DM.

[umbrapolaris]

I strongly feel that resorting to physical threats is one of the worst possible ways to resolve a problem DM.

in most case yes, but some people dont understand by words.

this guy was not at his 1st try, other players complain about his "DMing" many times before, without success.

it takes me 1mn to solve the case, by words, surely more and may aggravate the situation and reinforce the feeling he is "powerful".

luckily my intimidate roll was high enough, i didnt need to "smite" him. ^^

[Volos]

My last DM actually evicted me from my house.

Since it is in line with the topic of DMs who take their in game power (and try to extend it to out of game power) too seriously, how did this happen? Was the DM the owner of the house or your roommate or what? I was forced to be a DM to a group of people because they took me in for a year. They wanted to play 8 times a week. I am not joking. Some days we played in the morning, took a nap, and woke up to play again in the evening. Our longest session was a straight 35 hours of gaming with no rest. There were bathroom breaks, but only when they allowed it. I was practically a prisoner. So I used the game to break them down mentally, make them paranoid every time we gamed. It was terrible, but I had to fight back in some fashion. I don't do that to my players anymore, heck... I don't even concider those people players.

[Vknight]

Since it is in line with the topic of DMs who take their in game power (and try to extend it to out of game power) too seriously, how did this happen? Was the DM the owner of the house or your roommate or what? I was forced to be a DM to a group of people because they took me in for a year. They wanted to play 8 times a week. I am not joking. Some days we played in the morning, took a nap, and woke up to play again in the evening. Our longest session was a straight 35 hours of gaming with no rest. There were bathroom breaks, but only when they allowed it. I was practically a prisoner. So I used the game to break them down mentally, make them paranoid every time we gamed. It was terrible, but I had to fight back in some fashion. I don't do that to my players anymore, heck... I don't even concider those people players.

That sucks. That just sucks. My stories are bad. Your stories rival Lanky's they rival his stories.
My pity and sorrow and best wishes go to you friend.