[3.5] Totemist

[Triskavanski]

I've started playing a totemist yesterday, And well I had a ball.

Was using the chimera head meldshape as my totem, granting me 2 bites and a gore. The Dread Carapiece increased my damage of natural attacks at the cost of my accuracy. And lastly the totem gives me hp and ac.

Using feats from the feat book, I gained 2 secondary claw attacks.
Then took Multiattack and Dragontouched (for dragonmelds)

Flaws include Beastial: -2 to all attacks that are not a natural weapon or unarmed attack. And No time for Book learning: Can't learn to read, -2 to all knowledge skills.
(Low effect on the character, but overall fits the whole theme.)

And well, as a second level character, I was pretty much one-shoting most monsters we faced. Which is good, because I made the character to replace two people who left as our damage dealers (and tank)


But this is getting me to wonder, why does everyone always kinda say the chimera head sucks and rate it so lowly?

[Greenish]

But this is getting me to wonder, why does everyone always kinda say the chimera head sucks and rate it so lowly?

Probably because the triple attack can't be used with pounce or other natural weapons, and it won't improve with invested essentia.

[Hammerhead]

How are you getting claw and chimera attacks from soulmelds at level 2?

Chimera gets flak for a couple reasons: it has weak base effects - it gives a circumstancial +2 to AC and a low skill mod from augments - and it doesn't combo well with other attacks (which is one of the big draws to natural weapons in the first place): when used with claws or slams or whatever else, it gives a single 1d6/8+.5*Str mod bite or gore. Most other soulmeld weapons give something like 1d8+.5*Str+essentia*d8 damage or gain magical enhancements (as well as better non-totem bonuses). Chimera's non-Totem binds are kind of neat though.

[Greenish]

How are you getting claw and chimera attacks from soulmelds at level 2?

Claws of the Wyrm grants claws from just shaping it, unlike most 'melds.

Still, the threefold mask compares unfavourably to Landshark Boots, Girallon Arms or even Sphinx Claws with some essentia.

[Triskavanski]

The claw attack is gained from a feat in a Book of Feats we have, which is a compendium of various 3.x feats. The feat's name is tooth and and gives a bite and 2 claw attacks.

This thing is intended to emulate a real chimera, who's full round action is 2 bites, 2 claws and a gore. All three heads are at primary level while the claws are at secondary level.

[Greenish]

This thing is intended to emulate a real chimera, who's full round action is 2 bites, 2 claws and a gore. All three heads are at primary level while the claws are at secondary level.

That's not how the 'meld works by the book, though.

[Triskavanski]

Not from what I've seen so far in the books I've read.

So could you direct me to where it says "If X is a full round action, you cannot possibly use secondary attacks".

[HunterOfJello]

Chimera is rated lower because you get 3 natural attacks, but not combat bonus from invested Essentia.


If you use Girralon Arms with Multiattack, you get 4 natural attacks and if you invest 2 essentia into it, you get +6 to grapple and +2 enhancement bonus to attack and damage with each claw.

Also, if you mesh these with the Feral template, then you get some very impressive damage at the lower levels.

[Greenish]

Not from what I've seen so far in the books I've read.

So could you direct me to where it says "If X is a full round action, you cannot possibly use secondary attacks".

My bad. If it really said that it's a full round action to attack with all three heads, you wouldn't get secondary attacks, but as is it's full attack, so you do get them.

[Triskavanski]

My bad. If it really said that it's a full round action to attack with all three heads, you wouldn't get secondary attacks, but as is it's full attack, so you do get them.

Well to be truthful, I didn't actually know there was such a difference in terminology. My DM and I had thought that if a chimera could do it, then the totemist could do it and had been trying to figure out where it says stuff, and where we went wrong.

Cause looking at it, the Dread carapace and Chimera mask seem like they were made for each other. With a Druid, truenamer and bard in our party, I can recover much of my lower attack bonus.

[Hammerhead]

You could probably nitpick the use of the preposition as in the 'as a full attack action' phrase, if you wanted to make a case against the soulmeld working in a full attack with other natural weapons (as opposed to in, during or the 'as a part of' phrase used later on in its description).

I'm not sure why you'd want to though, as the soulmeld's kind of nifty, and not particularly overwhelming when compared to other options.

[Coidzor]

Are there any claw natural attacks that Totemist grants that don't overlap with or replace the ones that a character would have from its physical form?

[Greenish]

Are there any claw natural attacks that Totemist grants that don't overlap with or replace the ones that a character would have from its physical form?

Depends on which natural attacks totemist has from it's race. Lamia Belt, for example, stacks with normal claw attacks from upper limbs. Girallon Arms grants three secondary claw attacks that stack with whatever you happen to be doing with your actual hands (say, using manufactured weapons etc.).

[Edit]: Wormtail Belt's stinger should stack with everything.

[Triskavanski]

something else I ran into, currently I'm using a dueling cloak, which acts like a shield but counts as light armor in your "shield" slot. (To be used by bards)

And we are currently running that cause it there, I only use one claw attack. When I take it off (Usually in a dramatic fashion) i can use both.

Does haveing a shield really negate your ability with all claw attacks as I've seen some people suggest?

(And yes, we use every book we can get our hands on. So long as players take the time to try and read and understand it, as I'm doing now.)

[MeeposFire]

Well normally you choose to have extra AC or extra attacks.

you could go buckler and pick up the improved buckler defense feat though the buckler will apply a _1 to hit penalty with that "hand".

[Triskavanski]

I mean for the hand that isn't being used for the shield. I just will find it a little odd if I cannot use the empty hand to fight with simple because my other hand is behind a sheet.

[MeeposFire]

I do not recall anything that says if one hand is occupied that you cannot use your other hand's claw attack except in specific cases involving specific claw attacks that require both claws to work (nothing comes to mind at the moment).

Rule of thumb is you can make claw attacks with any limb not being used for something else (such as an attack or a shield).

[Fox Box Socks]

The Chimera meld is great for low levels, but you're going to get diminishing returns the longer you use it. It scales awfully.

[MeeposFire]

The one thing I have found that the chimera bites were particularity great for was when I created a con damaging bite master from a shifter with longtooth elite. It allowed me to damage con with every bite and I used imp rapid strike and a necklace of natural attacks to give my bites con damaging enchantments on top of everything else. t was nasty to anything vulnerable to con damage.

[Fox Box Socks]

(and most things are vulnerable to con damage)

[MeeposFire]

Indeed most things are but my damage was mostly average outside of that con damage so undead were not my favorite enemies.

My build had about 8 bites a round or so which dealt 3 con damage each so I could deal 24 con damage a round if I hit (though we do know that is always not a given).

[Triskavanski]

The Chimera meld is great for low levels, but you're going to get diminishing returns the longer you use it. It scales awfully.

It scales awfully by its own accord, but what about when applied to the dread carapiece, a bard, druid and truenamer?

3/4 of our party is buff/controll and I'm damge and tank. (in mmo terms.)

[Triskavanski]

Well in anycase, thanks. I now know at least a little bit of why people think its a horrible meld to shape.

Now I just gotta convince my DM to allow me to drop perfession and instead pick up preform A cappella. Just simple cause it would be funny to have a man with chimera heads singing things like the theme song to underdog.

[MeeposFire]

Well in anycase, thanks. I now know at least a little bit of why people think its a horrible meld to shape.

Now I just gotta convince my DM to allow me to drop perfession and instead pick up preform A cappella. Just simple cause it would be funny to have a man with chimera heads singing things like the theme song to underdog.

Well unless you are trying to make money with your singing you do not need perform to sing a theme song just do it!

[Triskavanski]

Typically our DM likes to have us roll a die to see how effective something is. Like how do I compare to the bard when singing? He is a DM thats really always on the fly and uses our rolls to determine what is happening, even If I'm not making money off it.

He had our truenamer roll an oratory check to see how good his speech was for my dead character. Then the rest of us had to make will saves to not cry. The bard though gave up on her save cause she was going to cry regardless.

While I understand that many people would be upset that the DM is forcing their character to do things via die rolls, we enjoy it at times.

[MeeposFire]

That is fine you do not need ranks in perform to sing. Just sing and enjoy the hilarity of singing poorly. Tell the other players the singing will continue until morale improves.

[Hammerhead]

Typically our DM likes to have us roll a die to see how effective something is.

You're not trying to tear at people's heartstrings with a cartoon ditty, are you?
Perform isn't a Trained-Only skill.

[Triskavanski]

Actually, I'd really love to be able to tear at peoples heart strings with a cartoon ditty.

After all, I'm a CE three headed beast of a wolfman who helps at a local soup kitchen. Anything the party kills gets turned into soup.

Oh and I'm in a city that while being mostly LN, has its largest guild being made of people who are typically LG.

[MeeposFire]

Is there a soulmeld anywhere that improves perform? That would solve the problem very well.

[Greenish]

Indeed most things are but my damage was mostly average outside of that con damage so undead were not my favorite enemies.

Well, that's understandable. If I was going around biting my enemies, I'd prefer the fresher ones too.

It scales awfully by its own accord, but what about when applied to the dread carapiece, a bard, druid and truenamer?

It still scales awfully, you just have other effects to compensate.