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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sir_Chivalry's Avatar

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    Default Tips on playing a CE crusader who (tries to) play nice with others.

    Okay, so I have this character I keep rehashing and renewing, and I've finally decided to take him back to where I first created him, as a crusader of Eyrthnul (I now understand ToB, I did not before.)

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    Dorian was a poor boy, the son of a farmer out on the outskirts of the kingdom. For years he cut wood, fetched water and tended the animals on his father's farm, which the lord had graciously allowed his father to farm in return for most of his harvest. His father never complained though, and Dorian saw in him a broken man, long sucked dry of joy and life to shuffle aimlessly from one day to the next, through blistering heat and freezing cold, driving rain and pelting hail. The work that broke his father hardened Dorian's resolve though, to get away from his roots and to obtain prestige and might, that his lord would bow to him. So it was, shortly after his mother died of pneumonia, Dorian set off to wander the land, as what was called an "adventurer".

    These people were known for many things, valiancy, honour, efficiency, but above all else, debauchery and violence. As young Dorian fell in with party after party of warriors, shining their weapons and hauling their treasure, he learned his craft. He learned at the foot of a warrior of note, Sir Godric of Balean, who took the young Dorian as his squire and trained him in the arts of swordcraft, horsemanship and the maintaining and wielding of armour and shields. Years later, as a founding member of his own party, he and his team were drafted into a war between lords, which his mentor also was fighting in.

    Attaining the rank of captain after a year of bloody fighting and the loss of two of his party members, Dorian's group of fellows shifted in nature to be a team of those his king's military could not use elsewhere, those who were a danger to others beyond the acceptable scope of war. He would make forays into enemy territory, kill opposing officers and slip out, alongside others in his group. He had distinguished himself, but none could know of his deeds, and Dorian chaffed under his restrictions.

    The darkness of war and the continuing slaughter of many of his close friends brought Dorian very close to the edge of his sanity, but before anything terrible could be done he was saved by his own personal angel, Miranda. Miranda was a commanding officer, a commisioned one of a lordly house, and she had joined the war both as a medic and commander. When Dorian attempted to poison himself and charge into enemy territory to die, it was Miranda who restrained him, fed him antitoxin and put him in the medical tent. Slowly, over many attempts, many cases of going AWOL, many dead companions, Dorian slowly began to have feelings for Miranda, and near the end of the war the two became engaged. It was also at this time that Dorian developed an addiction to sannish and devilweed, using it to dull the pain of the war, and to his sadness years later, it would be then that Miranda also chose to share in this life of pain and misery by marrying him.

    But as soon as it began, it all came crashing down. When two stopped along the road mere days into their leave to help a wounded traveller, they were beset upon by bandits, lead by a foul fiend of the lower planes. When Dorian awoke, his wife lay beside him, her eyes glassy and distant, her face empty and lifeless, and her body torn apart and ravaged, savagely eaten by the fiend. In her left hand she clasped a single tuft of purple-blue-gray fur. torn from the fiend's coat, and in her right she clasped her holy symbol, what good the trapping had done her. For days he sat with her, speaking softly to her about how she would recover, how this shouldn't put a damper on thier honeymoon. When the flies came, he built a fire of greewood to ward them off. When the wolves came, he fought them. When the monsters came, he was forced to leave her, the beasts fighting over he decaying form. He took with him only the tuft of hair and her symbol.

    When he returned, battered and broken, to his father's farm, he found the place in ruins, raided and burned by the enemy's forces, the land salted and the cattle left in heaps to burn. Even now the stench was horrid, but Dorian Lancaster saw something else. He was his life's path writ large. Return to his past was impossible. Only those who strove forward, who did what was beyond necessary, what was desired, would advance in life. If he had been stronger he could have fended off the beasts, beaten the enemy, saved his comrades. And so, his tattered military dress uniform whipping in the harsh sulfurous wind of his past, he set forth to make earn the might that would make him a force to be reckoned with.


    Okay, so I chose Eyrthnul because he's the god of slaughter, no rules of war, no code of chivalry, but I'd like to know, does anyone have any advice for how to play this character? Little roleplaying tics to get his cahracter down and such? How should I play him to not interfere too badly with other players while still being a less than savoury type?

    Suggestions so far
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vangor
    Make your first reaction combat. Anything vaguely aggressive to you should be met with an unveiled threat at the least. You should attempt to escalate any situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Bob
    There's stuff in the Complete Champion about neutral worshipers of evil gods. In Erythnul's case, you've got characters that see the practicality of leaving none alive and believe that slaying innocents actually angers their god("Those that do not live by the sword are unworthy to die by it").
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlawk
    Threat and follow through are one thing that are going to be key. Someone comes up to you in the tavern and starts talking when you don't want to, tell them to leave, and when they don't, pin their hand to the bar with a dagger. That sort of thing. The character I am developing is fairly quiet and reserved, but extreme in his response when someone provokes him to action.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence
    There are lots of ways to play Evil- not all of which require that the character behave badly toward most beings.

    They might confine their worst behaviour to "the enemy"- being the sort of character who revels in tormenting and destroying their enemies in the most horrible ways they can think of- but fairly reasonable toward beings who are "not enemies".
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakefall View Post
    From the story you've given us it strikes me as though Dorian didn't at any point choose Eyrthnul. Eyrthnul chose him. Dorian lived his life surrounded by, and creating, slaughter, and Eyrthnul approved and gifted him with divine power.

    You could see this as something that merely benefits both parties. Dorian walks his own path, and just so happens to leave slaughter in his wake, which pleases Eyrthnul, who gives him power so that he may create more slaughter and further Eyrthnul's purpose.

    On the other hand, though, Dorian could be a very, very broken man indeed. Eyrthnul chose him for the above reasons, but rather than seeing it almost as a business relationship, Dorian, bitter as he is, see's it as a cruel joke played on him. Fate fills his life with slaughter, and won't be stoping with that any time soon. If he isn't the one dishing it out, well then it will just be brought unto him or anything he may care about. Might as well embrace it, and just become an angry, numb killing machine right?

    I like the second one myself as it opens up the option of redemption, should you ever want it.
    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    Not necessarily; that's up to you. CN is usually a bit easier for the party to manage, though.

    Given his emphasis on true power and effectiveness, it's very plausible for him to be restrained as opposed to a stereotypical kill-everything-that-moves CE character. He might want to kill lots of people, but restrain himself for his own good.

    Dorian sounds very broken-down, stripped of everything that he cared about except for his own self. You could play him either as reluctant to form attachments for fear of losing them. Or he could see the party as "his," a replacement for his family and dead comrades, and get absolutely ferocious when they're in danger. Either way, he should respect the party's freedom to do what they think is right; he's just a soldier, he doesn't know how wizarding works better than the wizard does, and trying to make the wizard follow his plan is just going to make the party less effective. And if his companions aren't effective, he's not going to be powerful.

    He might also be prone to giving gifts to other party members, reasoning that anything that makes them more powerful makes him more powerful. He might be prone to stealing things for this purpose; if a party member says they want something, he'll go grab the nearest such thing he can find, even if it happens to be in someone else's hands or nailed to the wall at the time. (Without being stupid, of course; grabbing a mug from someone in a tavern because a party member said "I can't wait to get a drink!" is reasonable, trying to steal a fancy hat from an archmage is not, though going up to him and demanding his hat might be).

    The honorless-but-effective shtick works. Always interrogate and then finish off the wounded, take human shields, never show an enemy any respect, and ask the DM if you can interrupt monologuing villains with attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Bob View Post
    Depends on what you're looking for. In the case of a character that's CE through past deeds and trying to make amends, but not very good at it, CN works. For a CE character that fakes not being CE so as not to draw suspicion, he's still pretty CE.
    Last edited by Sir_Chivalry; 2011-01-31 at 11:52 PM.
    Feel free to PM me if you want something PEACHed. I may not be one of the greats, but I'll do it if you ask.

    "One of us is tender,
    One of us is not,
    One of us takes vengeance,
    All four tied in a knot
    "

    My homebrew

    (U)sually in any game situation the biggest control freak will gravitate towards the job of being the GM anyway.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: Tips on playing a crusader of Eyrthnul who plays nice with others.

    Unfortunately, Erythnul is slaughter and panic and undoubtedly chaotic evil and worshiped by the chaotic evil. You will not fit well with most parties. I recommend focusing minimally on the actual idea of a Crusader of Erythnul and more as a Crusader who has found something understandable in the message of Erythnul.

    Make your first reaction combat. Anything vaguely aggressive to you should be met with an unveiled threat at the least. You should attempt to escalate any situation.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sir_Chivalry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tips on playing a crusader of Eyrthnul who plays nice with others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vangor View Post
    Unfortunately, Erythnul is slaughter and panic and undoubtedly chaotic evil and worshiped by the chaotic evil. You will not fit well with most parties. I recommend focusing minimally on the actual idea of a Crusader of Erythnul and more as a Crusader who has found something understandable in the message of Erythnul.

    Make your first reaction combat. Anything vaguely aggressive to you should be met with an unveiled threat at the least. You should attempt to escalate any situation.
    That's sort of my aim, not so much a cleric of Eyrthnul as a guy who sees a point in the slaughter.

    Okay, escalation.
    Feel free to PM me if you want something PEACHed. I may not be one of the greats, but I'll do it if you ask.

    "One of us is tender,
    One of us is not,
    One of us takes vengeance,
    All four tied in a knot
    "

    My homebrew

    (U)sually in any game situation the biggest control freak will gravitate towards the job of being the GM anyway.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Tips on playing a CE crusader who (tries to) play nice with others.

    There's stuff in the Complete Champion about neutral worshipers of evil gods. In Erythnul's case, you've got characters that see the practicality of leaving none alive and believe that slaying innocents actually angers their god("Those that do not live by the sword are unworthy to die by it").

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Warlawk's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tips on playing a CE crusader who (tries to) play nice with others.

    I've actually started working on the concepts I want to use for a Warblade/Disciple of Dispater who will be played with a non-evil group. So I'm kinda going through the same mental exercises you are.

    Threat and follow through are one thing that are going to be key. Someone comes up to you in the tavern and starts talking when you don't want to, tell them to leave, and when they don't, pin their hand to the bar with a dagger. That sort of thing. The character I am developing is fairly quiet and reserved, but extreme in his response when someone provokes him to action.

    He sees the adventuring group he has found as the surest route to power, security and safety from potential enemies (Security and personal safety are some of the core values of Dispater). As such he is taking a key role in the party and being as loyal to them as could be reasonably expected as a matter of self interest. He might go with the group on a mission of goodness to save the local villagers or something, but would never be the one to suggest that course of action. Precisely applied violence in overwhelming ferocity is his MO. Minimum collateral damage, no loose strings or complications, get in , get the job done and get out with more power/magic than you had before.
    A man who dies fighting with his principles intact dies in glory. To expect enemies to follow the same code of honor defiles that honor, reducing it to a set of arbitrary rules.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sir_Chivalry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tips on playing a CE crusader who (tries to) play nice with others.

    The Complete Champion view on non-evil worshipers is a good idea.

    Is this character better to play as a neutral character than an evil one?
    Feel free to PM me if you want something PEACHed. I may not be one of the greats, but I'll do it if you ask.

    "One of us is tender,
    One of us is not,
    One of us takes vengeance,
    All four tied in a knot
    "

    My homebrew

    (U)sually in any game situation the biggest control freak will gravitate towards the job of being the GM anyway.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Tips on playing a CE crusader who (tries to) play nice with others.

    Depends on what you're looking for. In the case of a character that's CE through past deeds and trying to make amends, but not very good at it, CN works. For a CE character that fakes not being CE so as not to draw suspicion, he's still pretty CE.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    SurlySeraph's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tips on playing a CE crusader who (tries to) play nice with others.

    Not necessarily; that's up to you. CN is usually a bit easier for the party to manage, though.

    Given his emphasis on true power and effectiveness, it's very plausible for him to be restrained as opposed to a stereotypical kill-everything-that-moves CE character. He might want to kill lots of people, but restrain himself for his own good.

    Dorian sounds very broken-down, stripped of everything that he cared about except for his own self. You could play him either as reluctant to form attachments for fear of losing them. Or he could see the party as "his," a replacement for his family and dead comrades, and get absolutely ferocious when they're in danger. Either way, he should respect the party's freedom to do what they think is right; he's just a soldier, he doesn't know how wizarding works better than the wizard does, and trying to make the wizard follow his plan is just going to make the party less effective. And if his companions aren't effective, he's not going to be powerful.

    He might also be prone to giving gifts to other party members, reasoning that anything that makes them more powerful makes him more powerful. He might be prone to stealing things for this purpose; if a party member says they want something, he'll go grab the nearest such thing he can find, even if it happens to be in someone else's hands or nailed to the wall at the time. (Without being stupid, of course; grabbing a mug from someone in a tavern because a party member said "I can't wait to get a drink!" is reasonable, trying to steal a fancy hat from an archmage is not, though going up to him and demanding his hat might be).

    The honorless-but-effective shtick works. Always interrogate and then finish off the wounded, take human shields, never show an enemy any respect, and ask the DM if you can interrupt monologuing villains with attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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    Default Re: Tips on playing a CE crusader who (tries to) play nice with others.

    From the story you've given us it strikes me as though Dorian didn't at any point choose Eyrthnul. Eyrthnul chose him. Dorian lived his life surrounded by, and creating, slaughter, and Eyrthnul approved and gifted him with divine power.

    You could see this as something that merely benefits both parties. Dorian walks his own path, and just so happens to leave slaughter in his wake, which pleases Eyrthnul, who gives him power so that he may create more slaughter and further Eyrthnul's purpose.

    On the other hand, though, Dorian could be a very, very broken man indeed. Eyrthnul chose him for the above reasons, but rather than seeing it almost as a business relationship, Dorian, bitter as he is, see's it as a cruel joke played on him. Fate fills his life with slaughter, and won't be stoping with that any time soon. If he isn't the one dishing it out, well then it will just be brought unto him or anything he may care about. Might as well embrace it, and just become an angry, numb killing machine right?

    I like the second one myself as it opens up the option of redemption, should you ever want it.
    If I had a +1 Pan of Frying I could totally do that!

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    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Tips on playing a CE crusader who (tries to) play nice with others.

    There are lots of ways to play Evil- not all of which require that the character behave badly toward most beings.

    They might confine their worst behaviour to "the enemy"- being the sort of character who revels in tormenting and destroying their enemies in the most horrible ways they can think of- but fairly reasonable toward beings who are "not enemies".
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sir_Chivalry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tips on playing a CE crusader who (tries to) play nice with others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Bob View Post
    Depends on what you're looking for. In the case of a character that's CE through past deeds and trying to make amends, but not very good at it, CN works. For a CE character that fakes not being CE so as not to draw suspicion, he's still pretty CE.
    Hmm, both could work.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    Not necessarily; that's up to you. CN is usually a bit easier for the party to manage, though.

    Given his emphasis on true power and effectiveness, it's very plausible for him to be restrained as opposed to a stereotypical kill-everything-that-moves CE character. He might want to kill lots of people, but restrain himself for his own good.

    Dorian sounds very broken-down, stripped of everything that he cared about except for his own self. You could play him either as reluctant to form attachments for fear of losing them. Or he could see the party as "his," a replacement for his family and dead comrades, and get absolutely ferocious when they're in danger. Either way, he should respect the party's freedom to do what they think is right; he's just a soldier, he doesn't know how wizarding works better than the wizard does, and trying to make the wizard follow his plan is just going to make the party less effective. And if his companions aren't effective, he's not going to be powerful.

    He might also be prone to giving gifts to other party members, reasoning that anything that makes them more powerful makes him more powerful. He might be prone to stealing things for this purpose; if a party member says they want something, he'll go grab the nearest such thing he can find, even if it happens to be in someone else's hands or nailed to the wall at the time. (Without being stupid, of course; grabbing a mug from someone in a tavern because a party member said "I can't wait to get a drink!" is reasonable, trying to steal a fancy hat from an archmage is not, though going up to him and demanding his hat might be).

    The honorless-but-effective shtick works. Always interrogate and then finish off the wounded, take human shields, never show an enemy any respect, and ask the DM if you can interrupt monologuing villains with attacks.
    Wow, that's alot of awesome advice! Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakefall View Post
    From the story you've given us it strikes me as though Dorian didn't at any point choose Eyrthnul. Eyrthnul chose him. Dorian lived his life surrounded by, and creating, slaughter, and Eyrthnul approved and gifted him with divine power.

    You could see this as something that merely benefits both parties. Dorian walks his own path, and just so happens to leave slaughter in his wake, which pleases Eyrthnul, who gives him power so that he may create more slaughter and further Eyrthnul's purpose.

    On the other hand, though, Dorian could be a very, very broken man indeed. Eyrthnul chose him for the above reasons, but rather than seeing it almost as a business relationship, Dorian, bitter as he is, see's it as a cruel joke played on him. Fate fills his life with slaughter, and won't be stoping with that any time soon. If he isn't the one dishing it out, well then it will just be brought unto him or anything he may care about. Might as well embrace it, and just become an angry, numb killing machine right?

    I like the second one myself as it opens up the option of redemption, should you ever want it.
    I'll keep that in mind about his motives for his faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    There are lots of ways to play Evil- not all of which require that the character behave badly toward most beings.

    They might confine their worst behaviour to "the enemy"- being the sort of character who revels in tormenting and destroying their enemies in the most horrible ways they can think of- but fairly reasonable toward beings who are "not enemies".
    So be a focused attack dogs basically? Sounds like a good start.
    Feel free to PM me if you want something PEACHed. I may not be one of the greats, but I'll do it if you ask.

    "One of us is tender,
    One of us is not,
    One of us takes vengeance,
    All four tied in a knot
    "

    My homebrew

    (U)sually in any game situation the biggest control freak will gravitate towards the job of being the GM anyway.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tips on playing a CE crusader who (tries to) play nice with others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    So be a focused attack dogs basically? Sounds like a good start.
    Or akin to Dexter in Darkly Dreaming Dexter, or The Punisher, or various other overly cruel antiheroes.

    Even V in V for Vendetta might be a candidate- he basically tortures his own ally, Evie, in order to mould her character so she can replace him after he dies.
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sir_Chivalry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tips on playing a CE crusader who (tries to) play nice with others.

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Or akin to Dexter in Darkly Dreaming Dexter, or The Punisher, or various other overly cruel antiheroes.

    Even V in V for Vendetta might be a candidate- he basically tortures his own ally, Evie, in order to mould her character so she can replace him after he dies.
    I love all those anti-heroes. Awesome advice.
    Feel free to PM me if you want something PEACHed. I may not be one of the greats, but I'll do it if you ask.

    "One of us is tender,
    One of us is not,
    One of us takes vengeance,
    All four tied in a knot
    "

    My homebrew

    (U)sually in any game situation the biggest control freak will gravitate towards the job of being the GM anyway.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Triskavanski's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tips on playing a CE crusader who (tries to) play nice with others.

    Currently I'm playing a CE character myself.
    We've got a DMPC in the party until we can find a player to replace it who is a palidian.

    He is a dwarf who doesn't drink but buys beer every time we go into the tavern, and my character "saved" him from drinking it one night, so the palidain is indebted to me. (Thus he can't kill me, as I do nothing really evil in front of him.)

    But I do good things, such as work in the local soup kitchen by serving whatever the party happened to slay earlier.

    In fact, I do lots of very good things... but the darkside of it is that I am robbing people of experience, allowing me to rise to power, as they sit there and twiddle their thumbs.

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