CO Challenge: SADdest Builds for each ability score?

[Talbot]

We all know about Sir Wisdom the SAD, but what's the SADdest build you can come up with for each of the other stats?

My initial thoughts:

I'll start with Int, since I've actually built a fairly SAD Int character before

Int: Grey Elf Factotum 16/Swashbuckler 3/Eternal Blade 1
Feats: Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Keen Intellect, Martial Study (x2), Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse (free), Lightning Reflexes, Knowledge Devotion (if you're worried about To-Hit), Rapscallion (if you care about Bluff), Font of Inspiration (if you have feats to spare/took flaws)
Int to: HP, Will, Reflex, Initiative, Damage, Str/Dex checks, To-Hit (v 1 creature type 1/day), AC (x2 if you choose to burn an inspiration point), many skills. Can add it to just about anything (costs an inspiration point), plus good synergy with Knowledge Devotion to up your to-hit and damage.

Quick thoughts on the other four stats:

Dex: Swashbuckler for free Weapon Finesse + Shadow Blade... not sure beyond that.

Cha: Necropolitan with Unholy Toughness for Cha to HP, mix that in with Battle Dancer (Cha to AC) and Paladin or one of its variants (CHA to saves), then snag a Gauntlet of Heartfelt Blows (Cha to damage) and Battle Dance Slippers of Battledancing (To-Hit and Damage, but limited), Iaijutsu Master 2 (Initiative), and you've still got lots of room in your build for some kind Cha-based casting or Smitey goodness. I recommend Bard for Snowflake Wardance and/or Bow of Song...

Str: No idea at all.

Con: Warforged Palading (with sub level) + Fist of the Forest (see if you can use Unarmed Swordsage to get into it) + as many Con based ToB maneuvers as you can squeeze in? Or just make Fistbeard Beardfist, who IIRC is pretty much all Con.

What's everybody else think?

[Reynard]

At Int: Wouldn't a Cloistered Cleric dip be a good idea, especially for some of the Domains? Knowledge Devotion is a really good way to turn that high Int into bonuses to Hit and Damage.

[the_archduke]

Con: Dragonborn of Bahamut Warforged Dragonfire Adept

Str: Cancer mage + festering anger + ??? = Profit!

[Tokuhara]

At the INT build: didja forget Insightful reflexes, which lets you use INT instead of DEX for Reflex saves

[Beheld]

Strength: You are a Feral Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale. You have some Racial HD, and +1 LA which you might be able to buy off.

You also have a +12 racial Str bonus, and are large. You also have fast healing and improved grab. Go you.

Now you are large, so take a couple levels in Barbarian, Grab extra Rage, and then take levels in War Hulk which gives no BAB, but +2 Str each level.

By level 16 you have a Str, assuming PB an 18 of:

18 PB +12 Racial +4 Levels +6 enhancement +20 War Hulk +4 Rage =54.

You also have improved Grabble, and you are pretty durable, so your strategy in life is to take Grapple feats, and than punch people into your grapple, and kill them.

Con: You are some kind of dragonfire Adept or other breath weapon user, so you are a Mongrelfolk Dragonborn for +6 racial. You do the normal stuff.

Int: You take those feats, but you are a Wizard instead of a Factotum, because that's much better.

Wis: Anthro bat Druid.

Cha: Magic Blooded Hellbred Necropolitian with Undying, Force of Personality, and casting the spells that make people fall down.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Con: Dragonborn of Bahamut Warforged Dragonfire Adept

Str: Be a wizard Illuminian, take the sigil that key your spellcasting of STR dip Cancer mage + festering anger + ??? = Profit!

Fixed that for you

[Ajadea]

On Charisma: Add a level of Bard, become lawful, take Monk, and two levels of Arcane Duelist to that build. Take Ascetic Mage. There, Charisma to AC 3 times.

For Dexterity, Champion of Corellon Larethian gives you Dex to Damage.

[DaragosKitsune]

For Strength: Power Throw. Strength to hit with thrown weapons. Plus, you already get strength to damage on thrown weapons. Now you are effective everywhere.

[Fable Wright]

Fixed that for you

Actually, it only ties bonus spells to strength, not save DCs or highest spell-slot available to cast. And cancer magi can't cast spells...

[TroubleBrewing]

Honestly, the Str build is as easy as Warhulking Hurler.

[dspeyer]

For the cha, it's probably good to use Sublime Chord. That lets you dip a bit early on but still finish full casting (or something close to it).

[Kaww]

On Charisma: Add a level of Bard, become lawful, take Monk, Battle dancer and two levels of Arcane Duelist to that build. Take Ascetic Mage. There, Charisma to AC 3 times.

For Dexterity, Champion of Corellon Larethian gives you Dex to Damage.

How do you get cha to AC three times? If you take mystic wanderer then you get cha to AC three times.

[Gaiyamato]

Tantrist (BoEF) uses Con as primary casting score.

Shiba Protector (OA) 1 gives WIS to melee attack rolls and damage.

[Runestar]

Is there such a thing as a NAD build? A character who can remain useful despite having say, 10s or 8s in all stats?

[Greenish]

Is there such a thing as a NAD build? A character who can remain useful despite having say, 10s or 8s in all stats?

Warlock or binder, conceivably.

Cha SAD build: cleric3/WotW10/PrC paladin3, with Shield Ward, Holy Shield, and Dynamic Priest. Cha casting, Cha turning, Cha to AC, Cha to touch AC, Cha to resist combat maneuvers, Cha to saves, Cha to HP etc. Could try for some smite or another (Cyran Avenger!), but really, you've got casting, and probably DMM.

[Psyren]

No one posted Person_Man's Sir Wisdom the SAD yet?

To wit:

Sir Wisdom the SAD

Elan Paladin 4/Sanctified Mind 1/War Mind 5/Sanctified Mind 2-6
A Paladin using the Serenity feat (Dragon Magazine, also on Crystalkeep) uses Wis instead of Cha for all of his class abilities. So now your Wis improves all of your Saves (and it effectively doubles up on your Will Save), and you can use it for Smite (bonus to hit) and Turn Undead uses (various Divine feats).

Sanctified Mind (Lords of Madness) is 6 level, full BAB PrC which provides 5/6 caster or manifester progression (player's choice, and you can explicitly change which you take each level) with the dead level being the first level of the class. Unlike most other classes, you can enter it at ECL 5. It also has some semi-useful class abilities, including Power Resistance based on your HD, which counts as Spell Resistance if your DM is using the transparency rules.

War Mind is a nifty PrC. His best class feature is Sweeping Strike, which can be abused all kinds of ways with Attack of Opportunity combos. But he also gets Wis based Psychic Warrior power progression. It's relatively fast progression, too. At ECL 15, you essentially have the same powers as a 15th level Psychic Warrior.

Intuitive Attack (Book of Exalted Deeds) which allows you to use your Wis bonus for your To-Hit bonus with simple or natural weapons.

Enhanced Elan Resilience (Complete Psionic) improves your Elan ability to spend your Power Points (based on Wis) to negate damage to 4 points per power point spent. You can also burn 1 point to get +4 to your Saves for 1 round. Though you need to be careful about this, as both are an Immediate Action, and thus can be done once per round. Alternatively or in addition, you can also get temporary hit points with the Vigor power, and/or heal with Hostile Empathic Transfer when you need to. And/or you can set up the standard Claws of the Beast + Claws of the Vampire + Expansion combo. Just be mindful that you have very limited power points (though you're helped out by bonus power points from a high Wis).

And Mage Slayer feats have no effect on caster levels, as the transparency rules have no effect on feats (otherwise a Psychic Warrior could take Practiced Caster and metamagic feats, which they can't). So casters have a lot to fear from you.

Buy a Monk's Belt, and you get Wis to AC (including Touch AC). Improve both AC's even higher by using the Shield and Inertial Armor powers. And since you're not wearing armor, you can buy a Ring of Evasion, just to be extra cautious.

To top it off, take a look at the Travel Devotion (Complete Champion) to get free movement every turn, so that you can make a full attack every round. (Not that you need it. You have Hustle. But it's nice to be thorough).

Put it all together, and you get a PC who has Wis based Turn Undead, Saves, To-Hit, AC, and (essentially) hit points, with full BAB, 15th level Psychic Warrior abilities, plenty of divine and psionic options, and numerous useful class abilities.

[Amphetryon]

Is there such a thing as a NAD build? A character who can remain useful despite having say, 10s or 8s in all stats?

If memory serves, someone on the Gleemax forums built a 0pb MoMF. Start with a Druid and focus on your animal companion until you can wildshape, then start breaking faces on your own, with your very own pet dinosaur for backup.

[Amnestic]

Con: Dragonborn of Bahamut Warforged Dragonfire Adept

A Dragonborn Mongrelfolk is arguably better than a Warforged if you're trying to pump Con. Costs you an extra 2 Cha, but gives you 2 more Con than a Warforged would.

[Greenish]

We all know about Sir Wisdom the SAD, but what's the SADdest build you can come up with for each of the other stats?

No one posted Person_Man's Sir Wisdom the SAD yet?

Probably because we all know it.

[Psyren]

Probably because we all know it.

Would you believe I Ctrl+F'ed "Wis" before pasting that just to be sure and got no results? I blame Firefox, I tell you!

[Gullintanni]

Warlock or binder, conceivably.

Cha SAD build: cleric3/WotW10/PrC paladin3, with Shield Ward, Holy Shield, and Dynamic Priest. Cha casting, Cha turning, Cha to AC, Cha to touch AC, Cha to resist combat maneuvers, Cha to saves, Cha to HP etc. Could try for some smite or another (Cyran Avenger!), but really, you've got casting, and probably DMM.

WotW 10? What's that? Also, what book is PrC paladin in?

[Amphetryon]

WitW is Walker In the Waste, from Sandstorm.

Prestige Paladin is from Unearthed Arcana, and is conveniently in the SRD.

[Greenish]

WitW is Walker In the Wastes, from Sandstorm.

Oh right, it's Walker in the Waste, not Walker of the Wastes…

[Chuckthedwarf]

Is there such a thing as a NAD build? A character who can remain useful despite having say, 10s or 8s in all stats?

Definitely a warlock.

He doesn't need ability scores for his "spells" as real casters do... All it does is increase DC on some of his invocations. And plenty of them do not even have a DC!

Eldritch Blast doesn't get any kind of damage from attributes anyways; it's a touch attack so it's pretty easy to land in most cases; and it doesn't have a save (although it is affected by SR until you get a right invocation).

So, a warlock can have 8s in any stat and fly 24 hours a day; Have invisibility at-will; Detect Magic at-will and so on... while still doing fairly mediocre damage with a good chance at success.

[CycloneJoker]

Nobody's thinking Wizard 20, or Achivist, IIRC, for int?

[Greenish]

Nobody's thinking Wizard 20, or Achivist, IIRC, for int?

The spirit of the thing seems to be to apply a certain stat modifier to as many things as many times as you can, instead of rendering said things unimportant with full casting.

[Edit]: Archivists are technically MAD, with Int for casting, Wis for bonus spells, Con for hitpoints and Dex for attack/AC/initiative. Not that any of that really matters when you can get any spell in the game to your list.

[Chuckthedwarf]

Nobody's thinking Wizard 20, or Achivist, IIRC, for int?

Or Druid 20?

That's kinda cheating, sure, spells (and wildshape) are incredibly powerful and let you duplicate most effects, but it's not quite the same to be able to cast Mage Armor to increase your AC compared to having, say, INT to AC at all times, even if the latter might prove more useful at times (Although Mage Armor doesn't really work like that in most situations)

[Urpriest]

Cha: Necropolitan with Unholy Toughness for Cha to HP

How are you getting Unholy Toughness on a Necropolitan? I wasn't aware it came in feat form.

[Chuckthedwarf]

Soulknife 2/ Psychic Warrior 4/ Soulbow 10

Zen Archery.

Get Wis to attack and damage with your limitless enchanted arrows.
Get Wis-based limited Psychic Warrior casting (only up to level 2 sadly at this point)
Wear heavy armor and heavy shield, no need for dexterity.
Soulbow archery, doesn't scale with STR, only size and wisdom.

Sure, you could get Wis to armor from a number of sources, but that would put more importance on having high Dex because all instances of wis-to-armor I'm aware of require you to either be unarmored or wear light armor.

Toss in 4 Paladin with Serenity ( You do not "need" 10 levels of Soulbow to get Wisdom for your ranged damage, just 1 level will do. No enchanted arrows though =/) and you get Wis to saves, some lvl 1 paladin spells, and the usual paladin shenanigans.
----------------

Wis to ranged damage, Wis to ranged hit, Wis to Saves, Wis to low level psionic and divine casting.

No need for Str and Dex and Cha at all; Con and Intellect have some uses, obviously.

And you can fit in all those levels by 20 and enjoy your mediocrity =/

[Ajadea]

How do you get cha to AC three times? If you take mystic wanderer then you get cha to AC three times.

Be lawful, take Sorcerer 4 (the bard mention was just because it would work, but that's unnecessarily complicated), Monk 1, then Ascetic Mage lets you use Cha to AC instead of Wis. Paladin 2: Charisma to Saves, then two levels of Arcane Duelist give Apparent Defense: Cha to AC again. Battle Dancer gives you Charisma to AC again (I haven't seen the class first hand, mind you, so this bit could be horribly wrong ).

So an example build would be Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Monk 1/Arcane Duelist 2/Battledancer 1 is level 10. Add a Gauntlet of Heartfelt blows too. This character has Charisma to AC 3 times, Charisma-based minor spellcasting, Charisma to saves and damage, Smite Evil, and is totally capable of entering Abjurant Champion, and maybe Swiftblade (Charisma to Initiative) from there.