Roguey Spellcaster-Thing. [Pathfinder]

[Otherworld Odd]

Hello playground. Before we begin, yes this is another character advice thread.

Also, I'm not looking to optimize, I'm just looking to be effective.

And into it we go: I'm playing in a pathfinder game (ECL 7 currently) as a Rogue. Recently, due to fluff reasons, the DM is allowing me to respec my straight rogue into something more arcane. So I did some research, and this is what I found that I might be interested in:

Beguiler, Spellthief, Unseen Seer, Arcane Trickster, Wizard. I kind of want to go into either Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster using any combination of the base classes. Rogue is fittable as well.

I want my character to be effective as a rogue, but I also want my secondary or even primary purpose to be a batman or toolbox type character. Also, I've been doing a lot of the spying and reconnaissance so that could work in there as well.

Also, I'm using the pathfinder version of Arcane Trickster and Rogue and the regular version of everything else. Do you guys have any suggestions?

[WarKitty]

How attached are you to a rogue? The sandman bard can basically do everything the rogue can with regards to traps.

[Otherworld Odd]

How attached are you to a rogue? The sandman bard can basically do everything the rogue can with regards to traps.

Not too attached at all. I don't really want to be a singy-music playing bard type either though. O.o. I'll admit I haven't looked at the variant though.

[gorfnab]

Rogue 1/ Beguiler 5/ Unseen Seer 4/ Arcane Trickster 10

[WarKitty]

Not too attached at all. I don't really want to be a singy-music playing bard type either though. O.o. I'll admit I haven't looked at the variant though.

Take Oratory as your primary perform skill? Or if that doesn't suit your taste, we refluffed dance for one of my characters as performing fancy or showy moves with a weapon.

[Otherworld Odd]

Rogue 1/ Beguiler 5/ Unseen Seer 4/ Arcane Trickster 10

What's the rogue for? Wouldn't it be just as good to put that level into Beguiler?

[MeeposFire]

What's the rogue for? Wouldn't it be just as good to put that level into Beguiler?

Without rogue or something similar you do not get sneak attack damage from unseen seer.

[Otherworld Odd]

Ohhh, right. I forgot it only gives you a bonus.

Edit: Wouldn't it be better to take an extra level of Unseen Seer rather than that fifth Beguiler level? It doesn't really give you anything.

[gorfnab]

Edit: Wouldn't it be better to take an extra level of Unseen Seer rather than that fifth Beguiler level? It doesn't really give you anything.

Beguiler 5 would net you Silent Spell as a bonus feat where as another level of Unseen Seer nets you another Advanced Learning and Nondetection. So yeah Unseen Seer seems like the better way to go.

[Otherworld Odd]

Beguiler 5 would net you Silent Spell as a bonus feat where as another level of Unseen Seer nets you another Advanced Learning and Nondetection. So yeah Unseen Seer seems like the better way to go.

I think either Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster (pathfinder) gives a silent spell-type ability anyways.

Another problem I ran into is that the Arcane Trickers requires the ability to cast mage hand as a pre-req and sadly, beguilers don't get mage hand. S I might have to sub the beguiler levels for wizard.

So what I'm thinking is one of these:

Rogue1/Wizard4(or5)/Unseen Seer(4 or 5)/Arcane Trickster 10

or

Rogue1/Wizard(4or5)/Arcane Trickster(4or5)/Unseen Seer 10.

[WarKitty]

I think either Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster (pathfinder) gives a silent spell-type ability anyways.

Another problem I ran into is that the Arcane Trickers requires the ability to cast mage hand as a pre-req and sadly, beguilers don't get mage hand. S I might have to sub the beguiler levels for wizard.

So what I'm thinking is one of these:

Rogue1/Wizard4(or5)/Unseen Seer(4 or 5)/Arcane Trickster 10

or

Rogue1/Wizard(4or5)/Arcane Trickster(4or5)/Unseen Seer 10.

If you add 1 more level of rogue, you can get mage hand 3/day as a rogue talent. Sadly you don't get a lot else from that level.

[Otherworld Odd]

If you add 1 more level of rogue, you can get mage hand 3/day as a rogue talent. Sadly you don't get a lot else from that level.

This is very true. Do you think it would be better to do that or just take wizard levels for it?

[Shecky]

If you add 1 more level of rogue, you can get mage hand 3/day as a rogue talent. Sadly you don't get a lot else from that level.

Rogue 2 gets Evasion. Which never sucks.

[Greenish]

Also, I'm not looking to optimize, I'm just looking to be effective.

And into it we go: I'm playing in a pathfinder game (ECL 7 currently) as a Rogue. Recently, due to fluff reasons, the DM is allowing me to respec my straight rogue into something more arcane. So I did some research, and this is what I found that I might be interested in:

Beguiler, Spellthief, Unseen Seer, Arcane Trickster, Wizard. I kind of want to go into either Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster using any combination of the base classes. Rogue is fittable as well.

Well, you're in luck, since PF skill change means you don't need the Able Learner (and thus human as the race) that the 3.5 rogue/wizards usually want to nab. Batman-ish toolbox & effective rogue seem to ask for more versatility than beguiler provides (even though it's an awesome class), so a normal rogue/wizard/Unseen Seer is probably the order of the day.

[Shecky]

Well, you're in luck, since PF skill change means you don't need the Able Learner (and thus human as the race) that the 3.5 rogue/wizards usually want to nab. Batman-ish toolbox & effective rogue seem to ask for more versatility than beguiler provides (even though it's an awesome class), so a normal rogue/wizard/Unseen Seer is probably the order of the day.

That's the way I'm going with mine. Mine's a dwarf (story reasons) with two levels of rogue already (also story reasons), and the DM is leaning towards enforcing multiclassing penalties, so I'll probably tack on 3 wizard levels before going US. Batman/toolbox primarily, also shouldering as much of the party's main-caster role as possible. Pondering going with more crowd control to make the melee-centric party a bit more effective, but definitely hanging on to the occasional roguely contribution to combat (i.e., sneak attack damage) as well. Also the only party trapfinder/fixer, which is integral to the character's story. US seems a nice mix of all those roles.

[MightyPirate]

Traits from Pathfinder APG can nab you Mage Hand without taking levels in Wizard or giving up the precious rogue talent. See Two-World Magic or Magical Talent.

[Otherworld Odd]

Traits from Pathfinder APG can nab you Mage Hand without taking levels in Wizard or giving up the precious rogue talent. See Two-World Magic or Magical Talent.

Interesting. O.o. I will definitely look this up...



Now, another question for you guys. Do you prefer the Unseen Seer or the Arcane Trickster (From the pathfinder book)? From what I see online, Unseen Seer seems to be almost unanimous decision as the better class but for some reason my DM keeps pushing Arcane Trickster as the better class so I'm quite conflicted as to which one is actually better. Both fit my character concept quite perfectly and I have no leanings towards either class because they both seem good to me.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I prefer Unseen seer, better BAB, more utility (truly Advanced learning is AWESOME, there are some exelent divinations normally impossible to adquire for a wizard like Hunter's Eye), better skill points, and easier requirements

[Akal Saris]

Unseen Seer helps you get to 2d6 SA to qualify for Arcane Trickster anyhow.

Personally, I prefer Unseen Seer, since it has better skill points per level and there are always 2-3 divinations that I want from other spell lists - usually the ranger's Hunter's Eye spell, and then the cleric's Divine Insight, Commune, Divination, and True Seeing (at 5th rather than 6th level).

With that said, I do like the new class features in the PF arcane trickster. I might suggest a build along the lines of Rogue 1/Wiz 4/Unseen Seer 2/Arcane Trickster 10/Unseen Seer +3.

Another interesting build would be Sandman Bard 6/Unseen Seer 2/Arcane Trickster 10/Unseen Seer +2. Sandman Bard gets sneak attack at 5th and bardic music is always nice to have around, so you'd trade raw spellcasting power for more early-game flexibility.