[3.5] Gestalt Melee Warlock Choices

[Zodiac]

So, my next campaign is going to be a gestalt campaign, and I've wanted to play a melee warlock for a while and having a second class would make it much easier to do. Also since the warlock isn't very stat dependent it would help avoid MAD.

However, I don't have much of an idea of how I want to go about it. So I would like to know what race and classes would be most helpful. All sources are pretty much available and campaign starts at level 9.

Right now for classes I am looking at:

Most Likely:
Ranger/Fighter/Monk (dip)
Rogue/Factotum (to be a sneaky warlock)

Fun, but don't know if will work:

Warblade/Crusader/Swordsage (maneuvers are fun, though it may be difficult to take advantage of both maneuvers and invocations)

Incarnate/Totemist (as much as I like incarnum, I feel that it wouldn't benefit the warlock too much)

Binder (I don't plan on going hellfire warlock, but vestiges are fun)

Other ideas are welcome too.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I really like to pair Warlock with either swordsage (for sneakness and skills) or warblade (for pure melee power).

Just be sure to take Eldritch claws (Dragon three hundred something) which gives you a pair of claws (natural weapons) that deal your eldritch blast damage, and since they are weapons you can use all your maneuvers, stances, with them.

As far as invocations go... I would be tempted with the +6 to various skills (leaps and bounds is great when combined with the jumping maneuvers from tiger claw), invisibility, and movement related ones (flee the scene, fell flight, etc).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Eldritch Claws are in Dragon Magazine, and as such, many GM's won't allow them as 'homebrew'.

Eldritch Glaive, is more viable, if you can find a way to do more attacks with them.

Rogue is always a good way to increase damage output, assuming sneak attack potential. A dip into Swordsage for Island of Blades always helps with this.

Depending on how your GM does Level Adjustment, you could try Pixie. Something like this:

Warlock6/Mindbender1/Hellfire Warlock2//Pixie4/Rogue5

would work swimmingly. Not only do you get the sneak attack, uncanny dodge, and evasion from Rogue, you gain a LOT of benefits for effectively nothing. And there's several invocations you simply don't need anymore.

Mindbender is so you can grab Mindsight at level 9, which pwns completely. It also lets you pick up Hellfire Blast so you can get into Hellfire Warlock. Next level, obviously finish it off, then dip Binder for Nab, then go into Legacy Champion to cap.

If you don't want to go HFW, the dip into Mindbender still works, then get a two-level dip in Chameleon for the floating feat. Why? Because Extra Invocation that you can change out daily is made of win. Also lets you pick up situationally useful things like Mortalbane, Empower SLA, and once you hit Warlock 12 (at 14th character level), various Craft Magic Item feats to be your own magic-mart!

[avr]

There's always doing a lockdown style of tank (Crusader, Stand Still etc.). You tell the enemy to stop right there, then you blast them. Or Eldritch Glaive them when you get that invocation.

[Zodiac]

I really like to pair Warlock with either swordsage (for sneakness and skills) or warblade (for pure melee power).

Just be sure to take Eldritch claws (Dragon three hundred something) which gives you a pair of claws (natural weapons) that deal your eldritch blast damage, and since they are weapons you can use all your maneuvers, stances, with them.

My DM already ok'd the claws and the grappling thing from Dragon, but do the claws work that way? From what I understand blast shapes like eldritch glaive don't allow maneuvers to work due to some strange wording.

Rogue is always a good way to increase damage output, assuming sneak attack potential. A dip into Swordsage for Island of Blades always helps with this.

Depending on how your GM does Level Adjustment, you could try Pixie. Something like this:

Warlock6//Pixie4/Rogue2

would work swimmingly. Not only do you get the sneak attack and evasion from Rogue, you gain a LOT of benefits for effectively nothing. And there's several invocations you simply don't need anymore.

My DM hates monstrous PCs, so pixie isn't a possibility.

That said, that is exactly the sort of thing I am looking for in a Warlock//Rogue build, and if I go that route I would definitely dip swordsage.

EDIT: Mindbender and chameleon look really good, what books are they in?

@avr: I considered a tank and doing things like blast shape: doom and repelling blast, but that build would rely more on crusader than warlock, and I want the character to focus on warlock.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The claws are not a shape, they are a feat which gives you a pair of natural attacks, hence they can be used with maneuvers. Also upon further reading they say you also deal your normal unarmed strike damage, so I suggest (even more) an unarmed swordsage//warlock.

[MeeposFire]

Yea if you are going to combine TOB with warlock you have to go claws. Glaive will not work with most (or probably any) maneuvers and it maxes out at 4 attacks (for having 16+bab) and things like haste will not help it.

[Zodiac]

The claws work with maneuvers, and since they're natural weapons, iterative attacks don't matter, so strikes would be great.

I'll talk to my DM about unarmed swordsage, any suggestions for how it should look and what I should give up?

Also, since ToB blends well with other classes, should I dip into 2 levels of monk or a couple levels of rogue, or should I stick it out with swordsage?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Mindbender is in Complete Arcane. One level dip gives you 100' Telepathy. This qualifies you for Mindsight feat, which lets you see any non-mindless being within your telepathy range. It's from Lords of Madness.

I forget where Chameleon is from, but you have to be Human to take it. The fun part about a two-level dip is the floating feat that you can reassign daily.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Mindbender is in Complete Arcane. One level dip gives you 100' Telepathy. This qualifies you for Mindsight feat, which lets you see any non-mindless being within your telepathy range. It's from Lords of Madness.

I don't think that will be a problem

My DM already ok'd the claws and the grappling thing from Dragon, but do the claws work that way? From what I understand blast shapes like eldritch glaive don't allow maneuvers to work due to some strange wording.

[MeeposFire]

Mindbender is in Complete Arcane. One level dip gives you 100' Telepathy. This qualifies you for Mindsight feat, which lets you see any non-mindless being within your telepathy range. It's from Lords of Madness.

I forget where Chameleon is from, but you have to be Human to take it. The fun part about a two-level dip is the floating feat that you can reassign daily.

Human or changeling.

[Zodiac]

I've decided to take swordsage for the other side, should I take a monk dip and/or some levels in rogue?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Monk 2 for invisible fist ACF (Exemplars of Evil) would work nicely I think.

[Waker]

Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms on one side and Warlock on the other side would make for an interesting melee warlock. Combining Eldritch Claws would make wildshaping more fun. By level 9 you could have four levels of MoMF which would let you wildshape into animals, giants, monstrous humanoids and fey, ranging from tiny to large.
"I transform into an invisible flying troll who gets to deal eldritch blast damage whenever I claw/rend."

[Zodiac]

Monk 2 for invisible fist ACF (Exemplars of Evil) would work nicely I think.

Don't have Exemplars of Evil.

Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms on one side and Warlock on the other side would make for an interesting melee warlock. Combining Eldritch Claws would make wildshaping more fun. By level 9 you could have four levels of MoMF which would let you wildshape into animals, giants, monstrous humanoids and fey, ranging from tiny to large.
"I transform into an invisible flying troll who gets to deal eldritch blast damage whenever I claw/rend."

I know somebody else in my group has his eye on MoMF so as awesome as it sounds I'll have to pass.

EDIT: Argh. Just realized that monks have to be lawful and warlocks have to be chaotic and/or evil, but evil isn't an option.

[Waker]

I just felt like throwing the MoMF out there, since I find it to be a good class. So what does the rest of your team look like so far? Knowing what they are playing might help us get a better idea of what you could play.

Anyways, just to say something silly try going with a Warlock/Artificer. Between those two classes you are the unmatched master of UMD.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Rogue 3 (for penetrating strike ACF) and maybe Spirit Lion Totem 1(for pounce and whirling frenzy)/Swordsage 4 is nice

I suggest combining Bounding Assault maneuver with pounce and Raging/dancing mongoose, with insightful strike (diamond mind) tacked on.

[Zodiac]

I just felt like throwing the MoMF out there, since I find it to be a good class. So what does the rest of your team look like so far? Knowing what they are playing might help us get a better idea of what you could play.

Anyways, just to say something silly try going with a Warlock/Artificer. Between those two classes you are the unmatched master of UMD.

It was a good idea though, and one I'll file away for later.
I actually dislike artificers (love the concept, but the execution... )

Good point though, should've mentioned the others' characters.

dragonborn elf warblade//sorcerer
gnome wildshape ranger/Master of Many Forms//?
human wizard//factotum
human cloistered cleric//crusader
??? totemist//fighter 2/barbarian 2/?

EDIT X2:
??? Spellthief//?

EDIT: What's penetrating strike from?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Check out the Enlightened Spirit prestige class in Complete Mage. You can go something like Warlock 20// X 5/ Enlightened Spirit 10/ Y 5 and everything it grants will stack with your Warlock advancement, including the increased EB damage. I'd use Ranger both before and after Enlightened Spirit, and use the Strong-Arm fighting style from Dragon 326, which grants Power Attack, Improved Sunder, and Great Cleave at the 2nd/6th/11th levels. That way you could put Strength at 10 and put a high stat on Dex with Weapon Finesse. Use Mystic Ranger from Dragon 336 if possible, which gets significantly better spellcasting and with Sword of the Arcane Order will be able to use Wizard spells as well.

Get Ability Focus for Eldritch Blast and any Eldritch Essence you use will get +2 DC. I'd use Eldritch Glaive with Beshadowed Blast, or Spirit Blast from Enlightened Spirit if fighting undead. Enlightened Spirit grants Celestial Flight so there's no need to spend any of your limited invocations known on Fell Flight or Spiderwalk. I'd start out with See the Unseen and either Baleful Utterance or Summon Swarm, along with Flee the Scene. At your next level you can get Eldritch Cone from Enlightened Spirit, which is Greater, so your new invocation via Warlock could also be Greater so I'd get Chilling Tentacles. Both Noxious Blast and Vitriolic Blast are good to have, and if you get into the really high levels you should check out the epic warlock feats and pick your higher level invocations based on what you want to qualify for.

[Waker]

Well, looking at that list it seems you have a pretty heavy front-line. Assuming your wizard/factotum friend doesn't go the skillmonkey route you could try Warlock/Beguiler. Or a Warlock/Spellthief would be very interesting. I actually like the Warlock/Spellthief idea the most since your eldritch blast can deliver sneak attack damage to flat-footed target, enabling you to steal spells.

[Zodiac]

Whoops.

I forgot one more guy actually:

??? Spellthief//?

I'm not too keen on Enlightened Spirit (don't care too much for fluff, and it contradicts my character concept, and I'd prefer more flexibility in choosing my invocations), and I'm pretty sure in gestalt the PrC can only be on the side that fulfills the prerequisites (3d6 eldritch blast in this case).

[Waker]

Ok, so you have another guy who could potentially be a skillmonkey. And including yourself you have a 7-man team?
Yeah I'm really scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as good ideas that haven't already been mentioned yet. Warlock/Hexblade might be workable (assuming you use the unofficial update) and it is a pairing that meshes well fluffwise.

Penetrating Strike is from Dungeonscape.

[Zodiac]

Ok, so you have another guy who could potentially be a skillmonkey. And including yourself you have a 7-man team?
Yeah I'm really scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as good ideas that haven't already been mentioned yet. Warlock/Hexblade might be workable (assuming you use the unofficial update) and it is a pairing that meshes well fluffwise.

Penetrating Strike is from Dungeonscape.

Yeah, its the biggest group I've been in, but it'll probably work out since the DM uses timers to keep combat going, and all of us are interested enough to be involved in roleplaying, and we tend not to let things get dragged down by IC arguments.

I'm not worrying too much about finding a niche, since the DM tends to make us have to deal with multiple things at once (sometimes even splitting the party) so overlap is good. Plus no matter what happens I still have UMD.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Whoops.

I forgot one more guy actually:

??? Spellthief//?

I'm not too keen on Enlightened Spirit (don't care too much for fluff, and contradicts my character concept), and I'm pretty sure in gestalt the prC can only be on the side that fulfills the prerequisites (3d6 eldritch blast in this case).

So, what's to stop you from going Warlock 5/ Enlightened Spirit 10// Ranger 5/ Warlock 10? Whichever 'side' something is on is completely irrelevant, the sides only exist when you list out what class levels the character has. A Wizard 3// Factotum 3 is no different from a Wizard 1/ Factotum 1/ Wizard 1// Factotum 1/ Wizard 1/ Factotum 1. You could instead list it as Wizard+Factotum 3 and it wouldn't make any difference. Similarly, you could list your character's classes as Warlock+Ranger 5/ Warlock+Enlightened Spirit X, and there's no 'sides' at all.

Enlightened Spirit is actually a very weak prestige class, but it ends up being one of the strongest gestalt choices available for a warlock. Use Hellbread (Spirit) from FCII for your race, say he was a Richard but after the torches-and-pitchforks succeeded he's had a change of heart and become a champion of (ugh...) preserving the innocent and a shining example of, er... how to gleefully slaughter evil creatures. Get Darkness as one of your invocations for making hide checks and because you'll be able to see right through it at 12th level, and pick up Mindsight (LoM) at 15th level. Mechanically speaking, this is probably the best route to take with a gestalt warlock. You can just go around nearly committing unspeakably evil acts but then reminding yourself that your soul will be better off if you 'stick to the deal' or whatever. It could make for an extremely interesting and fun character.

[The Rabbler]

I'm insulted that no one has mentioned incarnate. even a single dip will get you a bunch of soulmelds with some nice passive benefits. Also, one of the binds (strongheart vest?) is considered the best way of getting around the con penalty for using hellfire warlock, though it can also be picked up via feat.

Also, if you want to get tons of hellfire damage, you can grab some skill tricks and the uncanny trickster PrC (complete scoundrel) which, along with free skill tricks, effectively gives you two extra levels worth of class features of another class you have. Pick hellfire warlock and you can hit +10d6 hellfire eldritch blast damage.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I'm insulted that no one has mentioned incarnate. even a single dip will get you a bunch of soulmelds with some nice passive benefits. Also, one of the binds (strongheart vest?) is considered the best way of getting around the con penalty for using hellfire warlock, though it can also be picked up via feat.

Also, if you want to get tons of hellfire damage, you can grab some skill tricks and the uncanny trickster PrC (complete scoundrel) which, along with free skill tricks, effectively gives you two extra levels worth of class features of another class you have. Pick hellfire warlock and you can hit +10d6 hellfire eldritch blast damage.

.... but the strongheart vest is the most debated way to negate the con damage... since it works like DR to abilit damage, it is perfectly arguable to say it enters into the "if you are immune to con damage, you can't use hellfire" clause... Naberius healing said damage is perfectly allowed by RAW.

[MeeposFire]

DON"T MENTION THE VEST WITH HELFIRE IT ENDS THREADS!!!

Seriously though it can.

Incarnate is good for all sorts of reasons though. Even a few levels is wonderful even combined with binder.

[Waker]

Incarnate/Totemist (as much as I like incarnum, I feel that it wouldn't benefit the warlock too much)
Binder (I don't plan on going hellfire warlock, but vestiges are fun)

Original poster has some comments on that.

[MeeposFire]

Soulmelds can be great with edlritch claws. For instance using mauling gauntlets you can get 2X essentia on your unarmed strikes and get that bonus twice using beast strike eldritch claws.

[The Rabbler]

Original poster has some comments on that.

That's what I get for skimming. Now I feel silly.