Level 2 builds?

[Axinian]

What are some good builds that are effective at level 2?

The game I'm in only allows the PHBs and the completes. I'm looking at a good support character, as there's already a caster and a front line fighter. The build doesn't have to be fully developed in its abilities until later, obviously, but it should be able to do its specialty well at level 2.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Ranger 2 is in my opinion a perfectly serviceable scout and secondary fighter, if you can ad variants such as trap-expert (Dungeonscape) and Mystic Ranger (Dragon Magazine) it just gets better.

[MeeposFire]

factotums are nice.

[Thespianus]

Human Bard with a few Inspire Courage boosts makes for a great support character.

Grab Melodic Casting from Complete Mage to be able to cast spells while using Bardic Music.

Regarding ways to boost Inspire Courage:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...e_Optimization

And, the Bard Handbook: http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...Bards_Handbook

[Amnestic]

I'll second Bard. Also makes a good party face if you don't already have one. Also, they're just fun

[MeeposFire]

Yes bards are amazing though it will take a few levels to pick up trapfinding via feats) if that is a role you want to do.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Yes bards are amazing though it will take a few levels to pick up trapfinding via feats) if that is a role you want to do.

Actually with Catalogues of Enlightenment* keyed to Kobold** domain, you can pick trap-finding with any class at level 3 at the earliest (I think the feat has a small XP cost which you wouldn't be able to pay at character creation


*Planar Handbook
**Races of the Dragon web enchancement

[faceroll]

Druids make excellent support characters

[Eldariel]

Rogue 1/Wizard 1 going into Unseen Seer is some of the best support you can have; doesn't have all that much buffing magic but with control and the buffs you have along with obscene amounts of skills, can kinda cover in on everywhere. And does a good job overall with stat synergies and all that.

Other than that, Bard, Druid and Cleric can be fine supporters too. All have varying degrees of buffs and other useful abilities.

[MeeposFire]

Actually with Catalogues of Enlightenment* keyed to Kobold** domain, you can pick trap-finding with any class at level 3 at the earliest (I think the feat has a small XP cost which you wouldn't be able to pay at character creation


*Planar Handbook
**Races of the Dragon web enchancement

Well that is a little better than what I had which was level 6 for shape soulmeld and hand chakra.

[nedz]

Monk 2 is a solid base, its the levels after this which are poor.
Solid abilites/feats and reasonable skills.
You would want to go in a different direction immediately after 2nd though.

[Psyren]

Monk 2 is a solid base, its the levels after this which are poor.
Solid abilites/feats and reasonable skills.
You would want to go in a different direction immediately after 2nd though.

Seconding this - you're great at 2nd-level, then quietly and quickly switch to Psywar.

[faceroll]

Monk 2 is a solid base, its the levels after this which are poor.
Solid abilites/feats and reasonable skills.
You would want to go in a different direction immediately after 2nd though.

I agree that it makes a great base, but low level monks are super weak. They are MAD, and they can't wear armor. This gives them low damage output (compare THF rage to a flurry- a rage hits harder and more often, flurry whiffs and doesn't do much damage), low HP, and low AC. I've watched a lot of people play monk, and those first couple levels are excruciating to play. Be aware that you are fragile and not useful in combat without a proper flank. Invest in tumble.

Druid, though, would be sweet. You can heal, buff, blast, control, your riding dog can flank with the fighter and trip, and later you can mix it up in melee if you want. You also get decent skills.

[true_shinken]

I agree that it makes a great base, but low level monks are super weak. They are MAD, and they can't wear armor. This gives them low damage output (compare THF rage to a flurry- a rage hits harder and more often, flurry whiffs and doesn't do much damage), low HP, and low AC. I've watched a lot of people play monk, and those first couple levels are excruciating to play. Be aware that you are fragile and not useful in combat without a proper flank. Invest in tumble.

Low levels are where Stunning Fist shines, though.

[faceroll]

Low levels are where Stunning Fist shines, though.

Not in my experience. Stunning Fist is better at low levels, but it's still pretty mediocre. It doesn't work against Constructs, Undead, Plants, Oozes, and Elementals. Animals, Giants and most Humanoids in melee have good fort saves and a high con score. Because you're MAD, you can't pimp wisdom like a caster can pump their main stat unless you got high pointbuy. Furthermore, you have to actually land an attack, and with medium BAB, a relatively low str, and difficulty getting enhancement bonuses to your attacks, a significant number of stunning fists are going to be whiffs.

Stunning fist's not bad, but it's not even close to the save-or-loses a caster's got. I would go with a variant monk from the SRD, actually, and pick up different feats instead of stunning fist and deflect arrows or whatever. Get combat expertise and improved trip. I think tripping is much better at low levels. A monk's strength will be about equal vs. many foes, plenty of small creatures to punch, doesn't use up resources, lands with a touch attack (so you can flurry with it), and the +4 from the feat on the ability check lets you win much more frequently than landing a stunning fist.

I've seen about four or five monks, in as many games, played from level 1 to up to level 12, with 3 different DMs. All were games with very high point buy, generous loot, un-optimized but target rich encounters, and most classes played as they "were supposed to", with blasty wizards and clerics that prepped mostly healing spells. The monks had virtually the same problems at the same times, in every game. And the problems were almost identical to what CharOp's identifies as problems.

If you went into the game with a monk, realize that your party roll is a skirmisher using tanglefoot bags, acid, fire, etc, with lots of flanking and height advantage. Coupled with hide, move silently, and some diplomacy I think a monk could be a reasonably useful addition to a low level party. But there's no way it can stand up on its own or be relied on to dish out damage.

[true_shinken]

Not in my experience.

This is the key point here. In my experience, I don't fight elementals, oozes and plants at level 1 and I usually see Monks with high Wisdom. I've had a Monk's Stunning Fist save the day very often with my low-level parties. Of course, YMMV.

[faceroll]

This is the key point here. In my experience, I don't fight elementals, oozes and plants at level 1 and I usually see Monks with high Wisdom. I've had a Monk's Stunning Fist save the day very often with my low-level parties. Of course, YMMV.

We had a monk get raped, literally, by assassin vines when we were like level 2 or 3 once.

[true_shinken]

We had a monk get raped, literally, by assassin vines when we were like level 2 or 3 once.

Like I said before, your experience is your experience. Your mileage may vary. Just because you saw a monk get raped by assassin vines (and I wonder why a creature with no intellect and of neutral alignment would even do that) that doesn't mean Stunning Fist is bad at low levels.

[Psyren]

Assassin Vines are very under-CR'ed anyway, you can't use that to judge the monk.

I'm all for bashing them but that was just an unfair fight.

[Person_Man]

My favorite low level builds involve Incarnate, Totemist, Binder, Crusader, Swordsage, and Warblade. But that's not in your books allowed, unfortunately.

Anywho, if you know that a game is going to start at low levels and generally not progress past ECL 5ish+ then I suggest heavy multiclassing. Some combination of Fighter 2, Paladin 2, Rogue 2, Barbarian 1, Cleric 1, Monk 2, Hexblade 2, etc. "Signature" class abilities (Bonus feats, Divine Grace, Evasion, etc) tend to be front loaded, so you want as many as possible if you're playing a low level campaign.

Past ECL 5ish+ scaled abilities (Wildshape, full casting, psionics, etc) start to significantly out pace signature abilities. So if you know that you're going to be playing in ECL 5ish+, then I would go with your standard Cleric, Druid, or Batman Wizard. Each has plenty to keep it going in early adventures, and will start to really shine once you gain a few levels.

Whether or not you use the Monk, Paladin, Hexblade, and other MAD classes should depend on what your attributes are. If your scores are all high, then I say go for it. If you only have 1 or 2 good scores, put them into Constitution and your primary attribute (Str for melee builds, Int or Wis for casters) and use non-MAD classes.