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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    I'm currently running a heavily adapted version of The Red Hand of Doom in 4th edition, and I'm loving every minute of it.

    During Act Two, the players executed the backstory of one character - a gnome warlock - the players met the source of her power, a Sidhe Queen and the character's Fairy Godmother.

    With the Dresden Files fresh in my mind, the Fairy Godmother offered a deal - she would 'buy off' the debt of the PC in question if the other players made new deals with the aforementioned Godmother.

    Two separate characters made deals with the Fairy Godmother.

    1. In return for the elimination of the PC's debt, one character - a Goliath fighter - said that he would perform three favors in a row. However, he asked for the ability to deny some of the favors.

    He also asked to become larger - that is, large size category. :P


    2. Another character asked for great ability with alchemy and a 'lab' in his homeland. The stipulation would be that he would be the immortal slave of the Fairy Godmother when he was "done with them."

    I'm nice to the players all the time. What the best way I can screw them over with these wishes (ideally without ENDING the game. :P)

    Some of the ideas I had - interpreting 'lab' as 'laborador retriever' and having it die of the cold since he didn't take care of it. :P

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    Don't try to use word play to get around the deals, your players will expect that.

    Instead find ways for the Fairy to exert external pressure for them to do what she wants. That's what Mab does mostly in the Dresden files.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    Wish One A size category bigger is not such a big deal. Being large sized has it's own problems. But you could always change the person into another race too. A hill giant, for example. You could also make them larger as in fat. This is a fun one, make the character the max weight for their race/size.

    Wish Two A fun one is give them a huge, huge lab building. The idea is to give them way too much to handle. They will need to hire a staff and guard and workers and pay taxes and all of that stuff.

    You could also give him a gnome workshop, with all the fun that would be. And a 'lab' could just be a single room full of old, used alchemy equipment.

    And for 'great alchemical ability' give him a furnace that eats souls and gives a plus to crafting. But make the souls a problem, like innocents if the person is good. Or people that love or trust you if they are bad.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    I would think that the souls of ANYone would make things harder for a good person. But maybe that's just me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    Immortal slavery? I see no need to twist the wish. Just have the benefactor occasionally lean on him, it'd be interesting for everyone who isn't him to see just how much he can manage to accomplish before he breaks down. As long as he's doing something useful, he's good, but how long can he come up with useful things to do, things that actually befit his talents?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    None of these things seem to be overly grandoise.
    I wouldn't screw with the wish wording, I'd propably just make one of the fighter's favours to be breaking the equiptment in the lab, when the other player starts going for contrived ways to continue using his alchemy.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    Wish #1, just give him the following feat
    Stocky (Dragon magazine 324 p78)
    +4 bonus on ability checks to resist being Bull Rushed or Tripped when standing on the ground. Stacks with a Dwarf’s Stability racial ability. Increase your weight by 10%.

    Wish #2, no size specified on the Lab, make it for tiny sized alchemists
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    I would give the first character his wish and more. Instead of making him large, make him huge. It's cool when breaking stuff and squashing tiny goblins and such, but it's highly impractical in a medium humanoid society. Also, his equipment doesn't get increased and is not tiny in his hands.

    The second character doesn't need a twist. He already screwed himself over.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

    Beneath the Leaves of Kaendor - Writing Sword & Sorcery
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    Actually, I suppose you could make him gargantuan
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    You said the fighter player has the ability to refuse to do certain favours.
    Were there any more specific limits here? Or can he just refuse to do anything that he doesn't want to? Or, indeed, refuse to do anything at all that interrupts
    his busy schedule, which is everything?

    Also, I can see why the Godmother would want to mess with the gnome: as soon as he is "done with"* his lab then she has an immortal slave. If he is "done with" it faster, she gets a new slave faster.
    But I don't see that she has any reason to mess with the fighter. If a Genie offers you three wishes, are you more likely to wish for the Genie to punch your worst enemy in the face or to punch itself in the face?



    *Whatever that may mean. May I recommend that he has to be working in his lab constantly. As soon as he takes a break go adventuring, hang out with friends, sleep, eat, go to the bathroom, anything the Godmother should zap in a say "Finished already? That was quick. Slave time! Put this collar on..."
    If a tree falls in the forest and the PCs aren't around to hear it... what do I roll to see how loud it is?

    Is 3.5 a fried-egg, chili-chutney sandwich?

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    Wish One A size category bigger is not such a big deal. Being large sized has it's own problems. But you could always change the person into another race too. A hill giant, for example. You could also make them larger as in fat. This is a fun one, make the character the max weight for their race/size.

    Wish Two A fun one is give them a huge, huge lab building. The idea is to give them way too much to handle. They will need to hire a staff and guard and workers and pay taxes and all of that stuff.

    You could also give him a gnome workshop, with all the fun that would be. And a 'lab' could just be a single room full of old, used alchemy equipment.

    And for 'great alchemical ability' give him a furnace that eats souls and gives a plus to crafting. But make the souls a problem, like innocents if the person is good. Or people that love or trust you if they are bad.

    I think the idea of a horrifically useless and cursed lab is perfect. Much better than my idea of giving him a labrador retriever. SEEN IT. ;P




    You're also probably right, Skeletor - she can easily just apply external pressure. They're barely into part 2 of the Red Hand of Doom.

    @Nedz: I don't know. They're all so fun.

    Personally, it needs to be bad. The players knew that by asking for these things, they were in over their heads...


    Personally, I thought that the second player's wish is atrocious and uncreative. I was highly disappointed.


    @hey: I didn't really go into specifics. I said "he could refuse them" or something like that and there wouldn't be any direct repurcussions for him.

    Maybe every time he refuses a favor, something happens to another party member?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    Tbh, I'd advise only to screw with their wishes if you're sure they would find it fun, 'cause that's the purpose of the game in the end If they'd really feel frustrated for being subject to that, IMHO it's just causing unneeded tension at the game table.

    In my group for example (we play 3.5) we gave up on twisting wordings because it proved more hassle than fun.

    If the DM screws with the wording of your wishes and the like, it's only fair to do the same. So at any time a char would be dominated/suggested/etc. we'd do our best to find a way to obey the request to the letter, while disobeying the spirit as much as possible (for example, a char got dominated once and ordered to go to the capital of a kingdom and kill the king; he did exactly that, except anytime somebody asked him where he was going, he calmly stated' I'm going to the capital to kill the king because <insert guy that dominated him name here> asked me to' since he was not instructed to keep it a secret).

    Secondly, it wasn't fun for anyone to think up a lawyer-ish text everytime a wish or something came up.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Dingle's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    You could have her constantly threatening to take thier stuff away if they don't do stuff for her. (he can still refuse to do stuff)

    the guy with his lab can make anything, but everytime he finishes something he has to do something for her (before he can use the lab again)

    OR, you could stock the lab with 1000(or 100) potent alchemical chemicals;
    He can make anything (even magic items) but it costs a certain amount of chemicals
    (eg. you could give him 50% of his WBL:
    1. divide the total value of the lab by the number of chemicals for the value of each chemical
    2. divide the cost of the magic item by the value of a chemical to get the number of chemicals used
    3. tell him when he's about to use the last chemical)

    (You could also add the XP cost as if he were crafting the items)
    GENERATION ([-0.051730 + (-0.674245 + 1.206612 c) i - 1.117584 c + c^2] + c)^2 + c. If this is the first time you see this copy it into your signature, square the generation and add c. Fractal experiment.

    Though noone was gonna pick it up, eh?

    Squaring that lot is going to take a while.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    Wordplay is too easy. I'll definitely have to simply make the lab impractical or with plenty of drawbacks. He was asking for it, truth be told. :P

    But as for the other character... he's a little harder to deal with. I'm not totally sure what to do about the three favors.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    Give the Goliath his Large size if that's what he wants. The evil part comes in when he opts to refuse favors. Every time he refuses a favor, then you apply flaws in that fit with being a larger-than-normal person. Stocky was suggested already, but you could also apply Slow or Poor Reflexes. Basically describe him as ballooning up like the girl from Willy Wonka, sans turning blue.
    Depending on how nice you feel like being, you could remove the flaws after he successfully performs a favor or you could require him to do something extra to get rid of the penalties.
    Last edited by Waker; 2011-02-08 at 03:03 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    randomhero00's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    1. He fills a large space but his limbs don't get bigger, so no reach bonus or extra damage. He basically just became hugely obese.

    2. His lab his incredibly hard to find and trapped as hell. He gets what he wants, but after the first alchemy potion he makes he's considered "done" and under her command. Or he gets a lab, but its 2 miles underground with no entrance. Or he learns such amazing alchemy skills he learns the alchemist stone, and therefore becomes immortal/an NPC (I like that one the least). Or she gives him the lease of a lab in his homeland...to bad its underground and used by high level drow. There's soooo many options here I won't list them all....

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
     
    OracleofWuffing's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    Quote Originally Posted by EccentricOwl View Post
    1. In return for the elimination of the PC's debt, one character - a Goliath fighter - said that he would perform three favors in a row. However, he asked for the ability to deny some of the favors.

    He also asked to become larger - that is, large size category. :P
    The agreement calls for the PC to perform three favors in a row, and that's the important part. If he, say, performs two favors, then denies the third, he's effectively given the two favors away as freebies, and still needs to perform three favors in a row to be even-steven. If you really want to stretch this out, those favors must be performed immediately and without interruptions, like, say, breathing.

    If you really, really wanted to be evil, everything goes up a size category, including him. But I think we're good enough, there aren't enough good ways to crease your size category as-is.

    Quote Originally Posted by EccentricOwl View Post
    2. Another character asked for great ability with alchemy and a 'lab' in his homeland. The stipulation would be that he would be the immortal slave of the Fairy Godmother when he was "done with them."
    Yes, you have great ability with alchemy.It takes great skill to create alchemist's fire that combusts to a 10-square radius by being inert. It takes great skill to create an acid that eats through its own container. It takes great skill to create a sunrod that glows with a blinding light in a 5-foot radius. It takes great skill to create a thunderstone that produces "The Song That Doesn't End" out to a 5,000 foot radius. Nobody can deny your great alchemical wonders.

    That lab in your homeland? It makes doughnuts.
    "Okay, so I'm going to quick draw and dual wield these one-pound caltrops as improvised weapons..."
    ---
    "Oh, hey, look! Blue Eyes Black Lotus!" "Wait what, do you sacrifice a mana to the... Does it like, summon a... What would that card even do!?" "Oh, it's got a four-energy attack. Completely unviable in actual play, so don't worry about it."

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    I wouldn't mess with the wishes. They weren't overly powerful and game unbalancing. Just make sure you don't give more than the wish asked for. For instance,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dingle View Post
    OR, you could stock the lab with 1000(or 100) potent alchemical chemicals;
    Stock the lab? What in the world for? He has asked for a building with lots of tables, chairs and shelves; he now has a building with lots of tables, chairs and shelves. It's a reasonable wish; I wouldn't mess with it.

    The next step for him is to get the necessary equipment to use it. That's certainly doable, but it'll be pretty expensive. Until then, he has an empty building.

    The other character asked for an increased size category. Go for it. Of course, he now has no usable clothes, armor, weapons or other equipment. But once he finds a way to replace his entire kit, this is a useful but not overly powerful wish.

    But I'd probably include some small passages in the next few dungeons, and he probably can't use any magic item not made especially for him.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Best way to make evil twists for a character's wish

    I think the guy with the lab has already made his life miserable, that is a very rich situation.

    As for the other fellow, don't let him turtle behind that weak "but I can refuse favors" language. He does what she asks. Make her ask for things that he doesn't want to do. Force him to face the consequences of his choices.
    Last edited by Britter; 2011-02-08 at 04:36 PM.

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