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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    faceroll's Avatar

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    Default Safecracker [3.5]

    What's the lowest level character (or team) that can routinely break into these:
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/livingVault.htm

    No pun-pun or ascending pun-pun's ladder. Ie, if you have a combo that gets you n+1 of something, it doesn't really count.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    ... Get caught, and slowly bash it from within?

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    faceroll's Avatar

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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by 2xMachina View Post
    ... Get caught, and slowly bash it from within?
    That was my first thought, but imprisonment puts you in stasis. Maybe send donkeys at it first, to get it to waste its abilities?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ArcanistSupreme's Avatar

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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    I think that the hardest part would be finding it. Once you do, hit it with dimensional anchor and then just blast it from outside the range of its imprisonment cone (or bait it into using the cone with a summon). Dropping really big objects via shrink item seems like the easiest way to do it. So a level 7 wizard could possibly do it if a) It rolls a 1 on the saving throw or b) It doesn't view the wizard as a threat and allows him/her to cast multiple dimensional anchor spells or c) The wizard has a good way of boosting the DC into the stratosphere.

    Edited for correctness.
    Last edited by ArcanistSupreme; 2011-02-05 at 08:38 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    It seems to me that all you would need is to be a colossal sized creature yourself. If you're too big to fit in the vault, it can't Imprison you without destroying itself. Depending on what rules and sources are allowed, you can get colossal size as early as level 1.

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    faceroll's Avatar

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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by ranagrande View Post
    It seems to me that all you would need is to be a colossal sized creature yourself. If you're too big to fit in the vault, it can't Imprison you without destroying itself. Depending on what rules and sources are allowed, you can get colossal size as early as level 1.
    Then it punches you for 100 damage and you die. Work out a complete build, and cite any exotic sources, like Bastards & Bloodlines, if you would.

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcanistSupreme View Post
    I think that the hardest part would be finding it. Once you do, hit it with dimensional anchor and then just blast it from outside the range of its imprisonment cone (or bait it into using the cone with a summon). Dropping really big objects via shrink item seems like the easiest way to do it. So a level 7 wizard could possibly do it if a) It rolls a 1 on the saving throw or b) It doesn't view the wizard as a threat and allows him/her to cast multiple dimensional anchor spells or c) The wizard has a good way of boosting the DC into the stratosphere.

    Edited for correctness.
    Its got magi immunity and dimensional anor allows SR.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Actually, on second thought...

    Get some Returning Adamantine spears. Stay more than 60 ft away from it (not hard to do, since it has a speed of 10 and can't run), and chuck your spears at it.

    You'll only hit on a 20 and it's immune to critical hits so you'll only do normal damage. It has no healing though, and as long as you stay more than 60 ft away it can't do anything to you, so you'll whittle it down eventually.

    Gold is really the only limiting factor here to get the necessary weaponry. It should be easily doable by level 4 or 5.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Maybe a Telepath using Mind Switch on the owner of the vault? So level 13, or 17 if you need longer than 10 mins/level (then you can use True Mind Switch).

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by ranagrande View Post
    Actually, on second thought...

    Get some Returning Adamantine spears. Stay more than 60 ft away from it (not hard to do, since it has a speed of 10 and can't run), and chuck your spears at it.

    You'll only hit on a 20 and it's immune to critical hits so you'll only do normal damage. It has no healing though, and as long as you stay more than 60 ft away it can't do anything to you, so you'll whittle it down eventually.

    Gold is really the only limiting factor here to get the necessary weaponry. It should be easily doable by level 4 or 5.
    No point in an adamantine weapon if your attaks do not ount as epi for te purpose of DR.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    No point in an adamantine weapon if your attaks do not ount as epi for te purpose of DR.
    When two types are listed, you only need one to overcome DR.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    And it could just Safekeeping itself off to a random place.

    You need to tag it with something to scry on, or a way to follow it when it casts Safekeeping.
    Last edited by 2xMachina; 2011-02-05 at 09:40 AM.

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by ranagrande View Post
    When two types are listed, you only need one to overcome DR.
    Only if its X or Y. If its X and Y you need both.
    Last edited by Boci; 2011-02-05 at 09:40 AM.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Its got magi immunity and dimensional anor allows SR.
    Oh, right . Okay, revised plan. Forget dimensional anchor and just drop enough shrunk boulders on it to kill it. If you put them all in a bag and then turn the bag upside down, they should all hit at once, correct?

    So, provided this works, six 400lb+ boulders dropped from 220ft or higher should kill it with average damage, and there is nothing stopping you from using more just to be sure. This reduces the necessary wizard level to 5.
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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    This works only when Magic Immunity is treated like the 3.5 Magic Immunity.

    All you need is to be a level 11 warlock with vitriolic blast, eldritch spear and eldritch cone, have two gargantuan (or whatever you need to 'fill' the vault) 'helpers', have a way to planeshift into the astral plane and a gemjump (spell compendium 101/102, lvl 6 wiz/sor spell that allows you to teleport to a prepared gem) gem.

    Now you give your gem to your 'helpers' and get the Vault to 'eat' them. Just have them throw rocks at it or something, the Vault isn't really intelligent with int as a nonexistent stat. Now attack the vault with Vitriolic Eldritch Spears, which should damage it because it ignores SR. The Vault should use Safekeeping because it can't do anything against you. Now planeshift into the astral plane and activate the gem. Because the room inside the vault is filled with your 'helpers' you are teleported into the nearest open space, which is beside the Vault. Thanks to the sequester part of the Safekeeping ability the Vault is unable to act for 1 day/level. Find it with tactile means and blast away with your vitriolic eldritch cone.
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  16. - Top - End - #16
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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcanistSupreme View Post
    Oh, right . Okay, revised plan. Forget dimensional anchor and just drop enough shrunk boulders on it to kill it. If you put them all in a bag and then turn the bag upside down, they should all hit at once, correct?

    So, provided this works, six 400lb+ boulders dropped from 220ft or higher should kill it with average damage, and there is nothing stopping you from using more just to be sure. This reduces the necessary wizard level to 5.
    I think Heroes of Battle give it a DC15 ref check to get out of the way. This means that it easily avoids the damage. Could always go hulking hurler....

    Quote Originally Posted by Wabbajack View Post
    This works only when Magic Immunity is treated like the 3.5 Magic Immunity.
    I think treating it as written makes the monster far more interesting.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by faceroll View Post
    I think Heroes of Battle give it a DC15 ref check to get out of the way.
    Unlikely. At best it would be for 1/2 damage.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by faceroll View Post
    I think Heroes of Battle give it a DC15 ref check to get out of the way. This means that it easily avoids the damage. Could always go hulking hurler....
    Okay, so that's lame. Well, you could just multiply the numbers by twenty. Statistically, it's going to fail 5% of its rolls. Maybe get a couple invisible servants to help you out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Unlikely. At best it would be for 1/2 damage.
    Nope, he's right. DC 15 for 0 damage.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    For finding it, if we assume your team of safecrackers has seen the thing at least once before you can pretty much always find it again by using Metafaculty which defeats the sequester spell due to not being a divination. Unfortunately using UPD to get this out of a powerstone requires a DC 37 check so your best bet is probably having a 17th level manifester.
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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    ^
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, clairsentience powers are equivalent to powers of the divination school (thus, creatures immune to divination spells are also immune to clairsentience powers).
    This is the default rule. Some people play without transparency, but it gets a bit cheesy for things that don't expect it for this reason.

    The hardest parts seem finding and catching the thing, the DC 58 will save or beyond screwed, and the wizard owner.

    It is difficult to damage but that can be overcome. That only acts as more of a delay for the above. Aha that's it. Party finally finds it somehow, wizard casts freedom on it, ubercharger one shots it before it can lave. Still takes ubercharger cheese until you're high enough level to do that much damage normally. And you still need to find the darn thing.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-02-05 at 02:56 PM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Safecracker [3.5]

    Nuts. I knew psionics were transparent for things like SR but not like that :(

    Hypercognition would still work since you aren't targeting the Vault, but that's much more generalized.
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