Sublime Base Classes, Feedback needed please

[psilich]

Hi all,

my group has been trying to adapt some of the Tome of Battle mechanics for the core martial classes, and here is what we have so far. We also adapted some of the pathfinder material for them. So here they are, any feedback would be helpful and appreciated.

Fighter:

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notes:

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For fighter, we more or less combined the fighter with the warblade, the gain they fighter's feat progression, and most of the warblades abiliites.

Skills: Add the following: Balance, Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Local), Martial lore, spot, and sense motive
4 + int skill points per level

Maneuvers, etc.: as Warblade

Bonus Feats: As fighter

Weapon Aptitude (Ex): As Warblade, except feats are based on Full fighter level, not level minus 2.

Battle Clarity (Ex) As Warblade Ability

Armor Training (Ex) Starting at 2rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (6th, 10th, and 14th, and 18th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –5 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +5 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.
In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.

Battle Ardor (Ex) As Warblade Ability

Flexible Weapon Aptitude (Ex): At fourth level, and every five afterwards (9, 14, 19) a fighter may apply the bonuses from weapon focus, etc to another weapon at the same time. For instance, a fighter with this ability who possessed the weapons focus (longsword) and weapon specialization (longsword) feats could also them apply to daggers for instance. He may switch the focus of these feats around with Weapon Aptitude as normal.
Battle Cunning (Ex): As Warblade Ability

Adaptability (Ex): At 8th level, you may change your feats with Weapon Aptitude in only five minutes. You may also change around your maneuvers at this time. If you have or gain the adaptable style feat, you may change your feats as per Weapon Aptitude during the full round action you use to change your maneuvers.

Battle Skill (Ex): As Warblade Ability
Battle Mastery (Ex): As Warblade Ability
Stance Mastery (Ex): As Warblade Ability

Rogue:

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For rogue, we used the pathfinder rogue as a base, so they gain a rogue talent at every even level.

Maneuvers:

Disciplines: Rogues may automatically learn maneuvers from the shadow Hand, Tiger Claw, and Diamond Mind disciplines.

Recovery Method: Once per round a rogue may recover one maneuver, but only if he or she has dealt sneak attack damage that round. This requires no action.

Rogue level/Maneuvers Known/Maneuvers Readied/Stances Known
1 3 1 1
2 3 1 1
3 4 2 1
4 4 2 1
5 5 2 1
6 5 2 2
7 6 3 2
8 6 3 2
9 7 3 2
10 7 3 2
11 8 4 2
12 8 4 2
13 9 4 3
14 9 4 3
15 10 5 3
16 10 5 3
17 11 5 3
18 11 5 3
19 12 6 3
20 12 6 3

Barbarian:

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For barbarian we also used the pathfinder version as a base, so they get rage powers unlike the core 3.5 barbarian.

Maneuvers:
Disciplines known: Tiger Claw, Stone Dragon, Iron Heart
Class Level/Maneuvers Known/Maneuvers Readied/Stances Known
1 2 2 1
2 2 2 1
3 3 2 2
4 3 2 2
5 4 2 2
6 4 2 2
7 5 3 2
8 5 3 2
9 6 3 3
10 6 3 3
11 7 4 3
12 7 4 3
13 8 4 3
14 8 4 3
15 9 5 4
16 9 5 4
17 10 5 4
18 10 5 4
19 11 6 4
20 11 6 4

Additional Abilities:
Rage: You may use maneuvers/stances during a rage, unless they are supernatural abilities or require concentration (Such as diamond mind maneuvers)
Recovery Method: once per round as a swift action, the barbarian may recover a maneuver if he has made a full attack that turn.

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I'm not sure about this, there may be a better way, we tried to make the method unique, but couldn't think of anything

Strike Mastery (Ex): At 20th level, once per round, any time a barbarian could make a normal attack he may instead use any strike maneuver of 8th level or lower instead. The maneuver in question must have an activation time of one standard action or less.

Additional Rage Powers:
Fast Instincts (Ex):While in a rage, at the end of his turn, a barbarian may recover a maneuver each round with no action required.

Thats all so far, what do you guys think? This is supposed to make the classes far more powerful than normal, they're probably stronger than the base ToB classes, which is ok. Other classes may be done eventually, but not at this time.

Edit is there a way to make the maneuver progressions into a table format? I tried to figure it out but couldn't.

[Nero24200]

I only have minor experience with actually playing TOB so I'll need to have a good look before I can critique balance thougha few things spring to mind.

Fighter - If you're happy to allow TOB I'd just substitute the warblade personally. I know that's almost the war-cry of TOB fans but in this case it applies most definately (especially since the fighter looks very similer to the warblade with the changes included anyway).

Rogue - I personally think the recovery is a little too good. If flanking the rogue can easily be sneak attacking every round, recovering manuevers as he/she uses them. I'd probably tone it down a little (maybe add a clause saying that the rogue only recovers a manuever is using a standard or full attack and gaining sneak attack).

Barbarian - Since you're using PF, how about letting the barbarian spend rage points to recover manuevers? It'll make the recovery method unique for definate.

[psilich]

Fighter - If you're happy to allow TOB I'd just substitute the warblade personally. I know that's almost the war-cry of TOB fans but in this case it applies most definately (especially since the fighter looks very similer to the warblade with the changes included anyway).

Do you think the warblade by itself would be balanced against the other martial classes? The extra class features and fighter feat progression were added/kept in order to power it up because the rogue/barbarian kept their class features and gained maneuvers as well.

Rogue - I personally think the recovery is a little too good. If flanking the rogue can easily be sneak attacking every round, recovering manuevers as he/she uses them. I'd probably tone it down a little (maybe add a clause saying that the rogue only recovers a manuever is using a standard or full attack and gaining sneak attack).

I believe the warblade can recover all manuevers as a swift action, so I don't think its that unbalanced, but I suppose a rogue isn't meant to be as good as a frontline fighter as a warblade is.

Barbarian - Since you're using PF, how about letting the barbarian spend rage points to recover manuevers? It'll make the recovery method unique for definate.

Weren't the rage points only in the beta? I don't have the book with me right now, so I don't know.

Thank you for your comments, anything else/other advice?