Helping A Newbie DM Cope [3.5]

[Volos]

I'm looking for some advice of how to help my fellow DM cope with the power players have in 3.5. I am the default DM for our group, but I had recently taken a month or so long vacation. While I was gone my friend was able to start running his own game. It caught on in popularity and now alot of my former players are enjoying his game. I fully support his success, but there has been one issue. He has suddenly and unexpectedly shut down his successful game, telling everyone that he is running a new game. His reasoning for this runs the gambit from OP characters, to Chaotic Stupid characters, to players misbehaving, and to disregard for his plotline.

While I can where he is coming from, he has suddenly inforced massive restrictions on player choices for races, classes, alignments, feats, and just about everything else. He even went so far as to tell a player they couldn't put ranks in a certain skill because it was too 'chaotic' or too 'evil'. He claims that he doesn't want anyone to play purely melee classes because they are too weak, but when someone trys to roll a wizard or cleric he keeps them from taking any feats other than 'Combat Casting' and 'Toughness'. As a new DM he seems to think that the players should care about his story as much as he does, but that just isn't the case. Instead of coping with it, he has decided to declare war on any character or player who shows signs of free will or original thought.

The only thing I think I can do to help him come to his senses is to help him realize that players are going to be powerful and they are going to ruin atleast some small part of a DM's plot. But aside from just spelling this out to him, I'm not sure how to approach him about this. He is constantly trying to build new monsters or throwing templates on exsisting monsters to make them 'more powerful' when we end up losing a PC every other fight anyways. How can I explain to him that PCs are... well... PCs?

[rayne_dragon]

The best way might be to sit down and talk to him DM to DM and try to get him to look at it from the perspective of the players. Ask him how he would feel playing in a game where the DM wouldn't let him play the class he wants to or take feats or skills appropriate to his character and made him fight exceptionally hard monsters all the time. You may also want to help him by offering advice on how to deal with such problems, or giving him links to a site that deals with such common issues that face DMs and how to deal with them while still keeping the game fun for players.

Alternatively, you may want to suggest that he run another system than 3.5.

[LansXero]

If you are more experienced and have the time and inclination, offer to co-GM with him. Ask him to lift his restrictions and begin to tell his story; you will help him snip out things that are too broken, spot power increases from players, suggests ways to make encounters challenging for the party's power level, etc. An outside look and a second opinion always help. Aditionally, you can tell him when he is getting too railroady, help him come up with alternatives when the PCs crash the plot, etc.

[HunterOfJello]

He could probably use some honest advice and honest feedback from you after one of his games. It's very difficult to properly gauge player reactions to different game elements when players aren't openly vocal about their opinions on the game.

It also sounds like he isn't enjoying the game the way it's being played. If the entire group can't agree upon a middle ground for the games, then things aren't going to work out.

[jguy]

As a DM and a player I can see where he is coming from. If what he says is true, he successful game was no longer fun for him due to "OP characters, to Chaotic Stupid characters, to players misbehaving, and to disregard for his plot-line." I am inclined to believe him baring any new information.

Now I can understand how he is feeling, especially about the plot-line being destroyed. One big new DM issue is planning too far ahead in your plot-line and getting too wrapped up in it. All the work and love that goes into DMing is a factor more then it does into making a character, most of the time anyway.

Now he also made a new DM mistake. He overreacted and went on a major powertrip. He is making rules because he can and he wants a tight restriction on "his" game.

You should probably talk to him and give him some advice. Don't plan too far ahead because players won't always follow the plot. Be firm but fair when it comes to class, race, and feat restrictions. Work with the players and not against them.

[werik]

I would try to emphasize the need to be flexible. In my experience PCs who have "ruined" my plot have generally made it better. It gives the players a sense of control over their player's destinies, it gives them the sense that they are helping to make the story rather than having it handed to them, and it forced me to challenge myself as a storyteller and think of how my NPCs would react to that situation. Of course certain restrictions are necessary to make the game run smoothly and the specificity of those restrictions will vary from game to game, but the player's choice should not be severely controlled or (as appears to be the case here) the players will end up disliking it.

You should also encourage him to think of the game as an interaction between players and DM and not as a competition. All encounters should be generally challenging, but they shouldn't all threaten to kill a party member or even bring the majority of the party below half hit points. The goal is not to "beat" the players but to make sure that they are enjoying the game. Sometimes that involves seriously daunting situations (treacherous traps, intractable authority figures, powerful villains) but it also often means rewarding the players for thinking of clever ways to handle opponents and maximizing themselves in an effective way for the challenges ahead of them. The moment that he starts thinking of the game in terms of cooperative enjoyment instead of a zero sum level of fun based upon who "wins" then everyone will have a better time.

[washmcrack]

Well first off it may be a good idea to show him this thread. Another idea is to suggest a sit down with the whole group to discuss everyone's expectations. In the game that I am currently playing I have 1 player who was constantly killing the plot, the NPCs with information that the group needed, going left when everyone else wanted to go right. I sat him down and explained my problem to him. Since then he has been much better about not going overboard. And even better when he decides to go nuts he tries to let me know in advance. As to overpowered PCs well I try to limit my players only on the basis of the story I have planned. Right now I am running a FR campaign and I told my players that they could play and race/class combination. I ended up getting 4 humans. 1 Cleric/Radiant servant of Pelor, 1 Druid, 1 Warlock and 1 Rogue. The only restrictions I put on it were only WotC products and nothing from Dungeon or Dragon Magazines. It may also be a good idea for you to suggest reading over the DMG2 and maybe reread the DMG. Chapters 1 and 2 of the DMG2 give all sorts of info and suggest ways to deal with DMing. I guess my best piece of advice is that Communication is key. If the players aren't happy and he isn't either well there is a disconnect. If there is a resolution the only way to find it is to talk the problem through.

Well I hope this helps, Good luck.

[Crossblade]

I'd agree with washmcrack's method. Sounds like the players went a bit too far for the new DM to handle.

Sit everyone down, call a truce, ask new DM to withdraw restrictions, ask players to play nice and not power game for the time being.

If that fails or even 1 disagrees, hit them all with the DMG until everyone agrees and surcomes to brain damage an agreement to play at a slower pace.

[Volos]

Thanks everyone, all the advice given so far has helped me with coming up with a game plan on how to tackle this issue with him. Everyone loves his game, but these new restrictions seem to have come out of nowhere and we're all rather confused on how to handle it. The only thing I can think of that may have triggered this was the second to last session of his campaign. A trouble player was dropped and there didn't seem to be any lasting issues, as it was a mutal thing. Then some guy just walked in and rolled up a character. He used some 3rd party book and was suddenly immune to all spells and a melee master. We got fed up with it and killed off his character that same session. But now my friend is putting all these restrictions up. Another issue is that he thinks I can break the game with a 1st level human commoner in a mid to high level game. So I'm given twice as many restrictions as anyone else. I'm fine with it, but I usually just play buff/heal clerics to help the party and now I'm severely less effective in that role.

My game plan so far is this...
1) Give him my copy of DMGII, tell him to read it cover to cover along with the DMG again. Hopefully helping him to understand his players and the game a little more.
2) Show him what it is like behind my DM screen, how I plan to do things for the game and the party. Teaching him how to run appropiate encounters based on the type of party he is running with.
3) Offer to be his Co-DM. This gives him the control over his story that he wants while he learns how to run the game more effectively from me.

[ThirdEmperor]

Also, you may want to explain to him how to build a plotlone that doesn't collapse easily, and doesn't require PCs to do everything exactly as planned.

[Hiest, monkey]

The best advice to combat Chaotic Stupid characters is to provide realistic consequences: killing random people makes it harder for your character to enter certain towns, sell equipment etc. This forces the character to either change their playstyle, or, alternately, to enjoy the chaos they sow. I like playing a notorious **** sometimes, having to disguise myself to get into town, being forced to bribe my teammates to lug my loot into town to be sold.

Most players will shrug their shoulders and roll with it if you give them enough in-game warning. If a PC has a habit of murder and destruction have a guard troupe rough them up a bit, and warn him. Or have a group of enraged farmers torch their inn some time.

If PCs like to abuse their skills just make up some situations in which they have a greater need of skill which they chose against: no one ever takes swim or jump... until they have to go on a rooftop chase, or fight on a swaying rope bridge.

The key is to make players want to act in the way that you want them to act. Most players don't even realize you are doing this if it seems like their mistake caused the consequence, so long as the punishment fits the crime.