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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Screw the rules, I have money!

    So, something I've been considering lately. We all know that WBL accounts for a massive amount of a character's power - but just how silly can it get?

    For the purpose of this thought exercise, we have Common, a 1st level human Commoner with 10s in all stats. Common has just inherited the fortune of a lifetime - 500,000 gp! He's rich! Now, how can he become the ultimate 1st level character of all time?

    Rules:
    • Common can swap his commoner level to a different base class for 50,000 gp.
    • No Pazuzu-Pazuzu-Pazuzu.
    • Infinite loops result in Common being formatted out of reality.
    • Candles of Invocation do too. Actually, any use of Wish, Limited Wish, Miracle, Alter Reality, etc, can't be used by Common.


    Power is relative. Maybe Common obtains ultimate 1st level power through the ability to kill anything CR+3 he looks at. Maybe he can fast-talk his way out of anything. Maybe he can intimidate the king into giving him even MOAR TREASURE. Regardless, Common wants to be the very best at something! With money, anything is possible, right?
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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Most obvious: +30 item of Diplomacy.

    30*30*100=90,000gp.

    What does he do with the other 410,000gp? Something to ensure he doesn't get surprise-ganked. Given enough time, he can make anything a fanatic.

    Round 1: Don't die. Full-round check to make that hostile thing over there unfriendly.
    Round 2-4: Same as round 1, increasing attitude by another step each round.
    Then take 20 to make them fanatic (since you can't reduce their attitude, this is probably legal).
    Last edited by Siosilvar; 2011-02-06 at 04:54 PM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Jarian's Avatar

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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Common can now bluff diplomance with the best of them, but is that really the ultimate first level character?
    Last edited by Jarian; 2011-02-06 at 04:55 PM.
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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
    Common can now bluff with the best of them, but is that really the ultimate first level character?
    Edited with some explanation.

    EDIT: Maybe spend another 140,000 to be able to do it with animals and magical beasts, too. This one is very questionable though: Wild Empathy doesn't really count as a "skill".
    Last edited by Siosilvar; 2011-02-06 at 04:55 PM.
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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Custom items feel kinda meh; make it too easy. Just get +30 UMD, Circlet of Persuasion and +6 Cha and get some Scrolls of Shapechange and good stuff like that. You could also get him some extra HD if you felt like it (e.g. Awaken with Polymorph-line or just hired Inspiring Bard works) and he'll be a beast.

    That said, just getting Shapechange and replicating every spell ever with the form shifts as Sus would prolly be sick enough to fulfill the goal of this thread. Hell, you can get a CL 25 Scroll of Shapechange en masse and profit. Being able to use Shapechange wins the game pretty hard.
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Simple, make the item intelligent, make it serve him, and have it cast spells to give him a boost to diplomacy.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Well, my first instinct would be to spend 200k on a Belt of Magnificence (putting all Common's stats to 16s), another 50k on switching the Commoner class level to Druid (or something equally good), spending the remaining 250k to kit out his adventuring gear, then start riding the XP train to 20th-level. But that's more of a long-term plan.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Custom items feel kinda meh; make it too easy.
    They really do. I was hoping for some more inspired responses than diplomancy or Shapechange abuse. Oh well.
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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
    They really do. I was hoping for some more inspired responses than diplomancy or Shapechange abuse. Oh well.
    Sorry, I don't have much time so I can't put enough effort on this to come up with anything more esoteric. I'm sure someone will eventually tho.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Polymorph any Object at CL 37 (Gray Elf), 2960GP
    Tome of Clear Thought +5, 137,500GP
    Headband of Intellect +6, 36,000GP
    Class Change (Elven Generalist Domain Wizard), 50,000GP

    9th level spells at first level, Priceless

    Edit: The other post says two flaws, it actually only needs one. Or you can use the guidelines to purchase one of the feats on an item. I think 10k was the rule of thumb.

    Edit2: Nevermind no flaws necessary. See below.
    Last edited by dextercorvia; 2011-02-06 at 09:04 PM.
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    Edited with some explanation.

    EDIT: Maybe spend another 140,000 to be able to do it with animals and magical beasts, too. This one is very questionable though: Wild Empathy doesn't really count as a "skill".
    Spend 50,000 gp to change your class to druid. Now it's a class feature, and you get an Animal Companion to boot.

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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Find a way for Common to become a Dark Necropolitan Whisper Gnome Factotum with Lifesight, Darkstalker, social skills, sneaking skills, Handle Animal, and whatever else you need.

    400K can buy a lot of time stop and gate staff charges.
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Something like Censer of Controlling Air Elementals for 100 000 gp lets him dominate everything for a long time, as long as he knows its coming. The rest of the money could be used for ensuring he knows if throuble's coming. However, let's assume Common wants to personally dispose of any opponents he might have, so instead you get something like this:


    50 000 gp to change his class into a wizard or sorcerer.

    Staff of Enchantment for 65,000 gp. You can now use Sleep, Hideous laughter and Suggestion at the cost of a single charge per casting at CL 13th. If something goes wrong, you can use the higher-level spells to save yourself.

    Next, acquire Sword of Life Stealing for 25,715 gp. You can coup de grace the sleeping opponents. This is an automatic critical hit, so the sword activates: the opponent gets a negative level and you get 1d6 temporary hitpoints for 24 hours.
    4 Gray Bags of Tricks, 900 gp each. That's 40 animals per week that you can harvest for temporary hitpoints. Common can summon four creatures at once, one from each bag, command them to stay in place, and cast Sleep on them. Since Common is now a wizard, he doesn't need to spend charges from his staff for this. That's an average of 10 extra hitpoints. You could do other stuff such as order the animals into cages in case saving against a spell makes them hostile.

    Horn of Plenty provides Heroes' Feast 1/day for 12 000 gp. That includes 1d8+ temporary hp, immunity to poison and other fun stuff.

    Add Headband of Intellect +6 (36,000 gp) and the Tome of Clear Thought +5 (137,500 gp) to secure career as an unreasonably tough wizard who refuses to give his staff to anyone.

    That's perhaps 300 000 gp used.

    Edit: Incidentally, that'd leave Common enough money to grab a Ring of Elemental Command (Fire). :P
    Last edited by endoperez; 2011-02-06 at 06:55 PM.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    My earlier suggestion doesn't require flaws (or buying custom items) after all. You begin as human, so take the feats Magical Training (Spont. version) and Versatile Spellcaster. When you PAO into an elf, you lose your Human Bonus feat which was Magical Training. Versatile Spellcaster is self supporting as far as prereqs go, so you are an Elven Generalist Domain Wizard with Versatile Spellcaster.

    To spend more money... UMD item, Prayer Bead of Karma, Orange Ioun Stone, The +CL Ring from CArc, and maybe some metamagic rods.
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    Regarding my Necrotic Apprentice trick:
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    This is brilliant.
    Regarding my Non-Epic Hidecarved Dragon:
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    Nicely done. Probably too cheesy for many tables, but I'd be inclined to allow it at mine, just for chutzpah.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    screw magical items and awesome loot. Buy a big house, buy lots of servants, invest the rest and live in posh luxury. Maybe hire some adventures to fetch you more stuff to sell.

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    Jarian's Avatar

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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeletor View Post
    screw magical items and awesome loot. Buy a big house, buy lots of servants, invest the rest and live in posh luxury. Maybe hire some adventures to fetch you more stuff to sell.
    Growing old and fat in a life of peace does not, in fact, interest Common. He has hopes and dreams! Power, glory, rules abuse!

    ---

    Now what can people do without polymorph/shapechange? Anything is possible with liberal abuse of broken spells, but I'd like to see more actual wealth abuse.
    Last edited by Jarian; 2011-02-06 at 09:14 PM.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
    Growing old and fat in a life of peace does not, in fact, interest Common. He has hopes and dreams! Power, glory, rules abuse!

    ---

    Now what can people do without polymorph/shapechange? Anything is possible with liberal abuse of broken spells, but I'd like to see actual wealth abuse.
    And if real life has taught me anything you only need money for that. my idea still stands!

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
    Growing old and fat in a life of peace does not, in fact, interest Common. He has hopes and dreams! Power, glory, rules abuse!

    ---

    Now what can people do without polymorph/shapechange? Anything is possible with liberal abuse of broken spells, but I'd like to see more actual wealth abuse.
    I would argue that the best use of wealth is buying access to said broken spells...
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    Regarding my Necrotic Apprentice trick:
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    This is brilliant.
    Regarding my Non-Epic Hidecarved Dragon:
    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Nicely done. Probably too cheesy for many tables, but I'd be inclined to allow it at mine, just for chutzpah.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by dextercorvia View Post
    I would argue that the best use of wealth is buying access to said broken spells...
    Perhaps. But once you prove you can get access to 9th level spells via PaO, everything else sort of becomes irrelevant.
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    That can be done w/o PAO if Common can just start as any PHB race.

    Probably the next best thing would be a staff with Greater Planar Binding,Magic Circle against X, Dimensional Anchor, and a Scroll of Simulacrum.
    Last edited by dextercorvia; 2011-02-06 at 09:31 PM.
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    Regarding my Necrotic Apprentice trick:
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    This is brilliant.
    Regarding my Non-Epic Hidecarved Dragon:
    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Nicely done. Probably too cheesy for many tables, but I'd be inclined to allow it at mine, just for chutzpah.

    Have a cookie.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    First, use some of that money to cheat death (either have a Clone made or have a system set up where he can be raised from the dead). Reincarnate could be used to return him to youth before he dies of old age.

    Then invest more money into an item of diplomacy so he can diplomance his way past any high level threats that want to kill him and take his stuff.

    Class change into something, possibly a Dread Necromancer with Tomb Tainted Soul so he can heal himself at-will. Since Charisma is a DNs casting stat, he can get a charisma boosting item that helps both casting and Diplomancy. Any levels he takes after that can be in whatever class he wants. Or he could go full Dread Necromancer to get a phylactory and become a Lich.

    Now that he has a relatively stable path to immortality, he can spend all the rest of that money on building castles or dungeons or outfitting adventurers. Make sure that money is invested so that it brings in more money... its physically impossible to have too much money (wait, scratch that... its impossible to have enough money!). Use the Business rules in the PHB II (or is that the Dungeon Masters guide 2?) to create a business that always profits (which I suppose is a shack in the middle of nowhere that sells wood to fire elementals that randomly teleport in... I suppose if the plane of fire is infinite in all dimensions and some elementals can plane shift than an infinite number of fire elementals would be plane shifting into any given random location in the Prime Material. Thus, if you sell then wood then the infindicimal number of them that carry gold will pay you red hot blobs of molten gold for firewood. Profit!).

    If business rules are strange then start making Distilled Joy factories, make iron walls to melt into metal and have artisans craft it into masterwork weapons, have druids cast plant growth on super-rich fields, make Create Food and Water traps and start a fast food chain or generally do stuff to make cash.

    Then with immortality and a steady source of income, use money to bribe whoever is around you to do whatever you want (maybe take over the world through a magiteck megacorp?). Make sure to roleplay alot to get plenty of roleplaying experience to level up.

    Or if you are feeling really cheesy, use your vast investments to get lots of wealth and create a huge popularity campaign. Let everyone see your face, give money to charities, bribe all the goblins with cash and diplomance them to be fanaticly nice to humans, donate to churches, get all adventurers to work for you, and basically make everyone fanatically devoted to you.

    Then their combined faith turns you into a Deity... maybe the God of screwing the rules with money.
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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendus View Post
    Spend 50,000 gp to change your class to druid. Now it's a class feature, and you get an Animal Companion to boot.
    That was included in the 140k figure. 50,000 Ranger/Druid + 90,000 for another +30 item.

    Wild Empathy isn't a skill, though, so by strictest RAW that allows custom magic items (i.e. following the guidelines to the letter) it's illegal.
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    You've got more than enough cash to buy an item with 1/day Wall of Iron on it with a CL of 20... now look up how much iron weighs, how large the wall at that level is, and the fact that iron is a trade good worth 1sp/lb.

    Now you have a continuing source of money. Cash flow > lump sum
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    You've got more than enough cash to buy an item with 1/day Wall of Iron on it with a CL of 20... now look up how much iron weighs, how large the wall at that level is, and the fact that iron is a trade good worth 1sp/lb.

    Now you have a continuing source of money. Cash flow > lump sum
    Given some time, you also have a castle. Castle Flow > Lump of Iron (or something; give me a break )
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    The Cube costs something like 200k, I think.
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Custom items feel kinda meh; make it too easy. Just get +30 UMD, Circlet of Persuasion and +6 Cha and get some Scrolls of Shapechange and good stuff like that. You could also get him some extra HD if you felt like it (e.g. Awaken with Polymorph-line or just hired Inspiring Bard works) and he'll be a beast.

    That said, just getting Shapechange and replicating every spell ever with the form shifts as Sus would prolly be sick enough to fulfill the goal of this thread. Hell, you can get a CL 25 Scroll of Shapechange en masse and profit. Being able to use Shapechange wins the game pretty hard.
    There aren't that many fierce 1 HD creatures out there, are there?

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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Stupid version: first, common does the diplomacy thing. Maybe a little more so by using different bonus types... one item gives insight, one gives sacred, etc. Now, Common hires Maug Wizards. Those run at something like 45gp a day for a level 20 Wizard. Since you can get any class this way, he's going to get 1000 Wizards, 1000 Clerics, and 1000 Archivists, all level 20. Next, Common uses diplomacy to make them into fanatical followers.

    Next, he's going to use the Warbeast rules to buy 3000 T-Rexes. They're shockingly cheap as well.

    Now Common runs a horde of level 20 fanatical T1 classes riding dinosaurs. No, the dinosaurs aren't critical, they're just awesome. ...game, set, match.

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    Last edited by JaronK; 2011-02-07 at 04:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by Saph View Post
    Well, my first instinct would be to spend 200k on a Belt of Magnificence (putting all Common's stats to 16s), another 50k on switching the Commoner class level to Druid (or something equally good), spending the remaining 250k to kit out his adventuring gear, then start riding the XP train to 20th-level. But that's more of a long-term plan.
    This is what I, as a player, would actually do. He'd be kitted out well enough to utterly steamroll level equivalent encounters for quite a while. Therefore, I'd pick wizard. You can safely make it through the levels in which survival is actually a challenge. Plus, abrupt jaunt is awesome.

    Now, with an actual decent PC class, solid stats, and a pile of money, I'd tend to dump the rest on inexpensive items that'll extend his endurance. Say, Belts of Healing along with a couple of potions, to mitigate hp loss. Hand of the Mage for utility. A Handy Haversack. Let's toss in an orange ioun stone as well. I'm tempted to add ioun stones, specifically the lavender and green one. However, we're going to dump a substantial amount of wealth on Eternal wands of x, where X is a third level spell or less.

    Why? First off, you can explicitly use those without any prereq. So, he can be casting fireball and Cure Serious Wounds at first level. Dump about 100k into these. We should be able to have him hit fifth level by the end of the first day. After all, fireballing one group of CR 1 mobs is a crapton of xp for a level 1 player, and there is essentially no risk of any survivors.

    Secondly, no matter how much you use them, there's no value loss. So, when the fireball wands are outleveled, he can sell them off to reuse half the gold for something still relevant.

    I figure I could probably get him to 20th level by the end of a week.
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    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    The Cube costs something like 200k, I think.
    Seems we have the winner, then.
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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Screw the rules, I have money!

    Common doesn't spend any of it, except to buy a dark cloak. He then sits in the corner of a tavern, offering high-level adventuring parties absurd sums of money to to retrieve seemingly inconsequential objects for him from dangerous dungeons. As a quest-giver, they will naturally assume he is an epic wizard or something and not attack him - from anyone else, his safety is assured due to having all those high-level adventurers on his payroll. meanwhile, he lives in a small house on a frugal budget for a long, comfortable life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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