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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    I know there are tons of them spread out over tons of books, but I'm wondering which ones are actually any good. I know Ilumine Soul is decent (except for, you know, requiring levels of Soulknife to get in), but I suspect there are many others that are much, much better.

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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Radiant Servant of Pelor

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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by gorfnab View Post
    Radiant Servant of Pelor
    Indeed. You are basically Cleric 2.0 Undead Bane Edition.
    The only thing you are giving up is . . . an eight sided die for hit dice.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2011-02-07 at 06:21 AM.
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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    I was about to say Hunter of the Dead from Cwarrior, but it looks like it's not so great.
    Sacred Exorcist from Cdiv. has a chosen foe (undead or Evil Outsider), Turns undead, and has an automatic consecrate with 20 ft radius. very cool. Not to hard to qualify for either

    Alternatively, Cleric. (Not a PrC, I know. But it's hard to do better than cleric)
    Cleric (Undeath Domain) has 7+cha Turn attempts. take it into sacred exorcist or Radiant Servant of Pelor (Tough luck getting this past your DM). You can beat up undead creatures on the side!

    (The RSoP automatically empowers heal spells, and later he automatically maximizes them. Pretty handy for those pesky zombies)

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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    If you're going for a full BAB option, Knight of the Raven (EtCR) isn't bad - it's a full BAB, 9/10 divine casting PrC that gets a few anti-undead abilities. Mechanically, it's quite easy to enter, but has fluff requirements that are very specific to the module.

    There's also the Skull Clan Hunter from MH - it needs sneak attack and turning to qualify, but unfortunately does not progress casting. It's a bit sub-par, but if you're looking for an anti-undead skill-monkey, it is another possibility.

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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Expedition to Castle Ravenloft has an alternate turning rule set you can choose to use where you just blast undead with it for damage. You can also use it to power any feat or ability that uses turn undead. Pick this for your cleric's turning variant. Then dip Sacred Exorcist to pick up regular turning. This doubles the number of all turning related stuff. So Extra Turning nets you 8 turning attempts, etc.

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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    RSoP is a trap. Go rebuke. Specifically command the DM's 200+ HD BBEG.

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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Skullclan Hunter (Mini Handbook) is decent for rogues. It requires a cleric dip for turn undead (oh noes, Devotion feats!) but you get full sneak attack damage to undead at lvl 2, ignore their DR at level 5, and rack up a TON of immunities plus 3 more sneak attack dice. It's even got good skills.
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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Indeed. You are basically Cleric 2.0 Undead Bane Edition.
    The only thing you are giving up is . . . an eight sided die for hit dice.
    You get MWP in exchange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by PlzBreakMyCmpAn View Post
    RSoP is a trap.
    no u
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by PlzBreakMyCmpAn View Post
    RSoP is a trap. Go rebuke. Specifically command the DM's 200+ HD BBEG.
    And...how? There are WAY more items to boost TU than there are to boost RU. Also, there is Greater Turning from the Sun domain which allows you to dust undead AT your turning level instead of half your turning level. There is no Sun domain equivalent of Rebuking, which means to COMMAND your DM's BBEG 200+ HD undead, you have to have a rebuking level of 400+. Which means, even with all of the available toys and goodies you can get for rebuking (of which there are WAY more for turning, and there is no inherant transperancy), you'd have to be like, ECL 385-390. Does D&D still work at level 390?

    Things that boost effective turning level, but not rebuking level:

    Ephod of Authority (MIC) +1
    Sacred Armor enhancement (A&EG) +2 (each)
    Phylactery of Undead Turning (DMG) +4
    Improved Turning feat (LM) +1

    Things that boost both effective turning and rebuking level:
    Rod of Defiance (LM) (-4 Turn Resistance)
    Lyre of the Restful Soul (LM) (-4 Turn Resistance)

    So...a good cleric can hit +18 effective turning level BEFORE rolling, which on a roll of 21+ is an undead 22 levels higher than him. An evil cleric fully kitted out can only get to +8, or +12 on a roll of 21+. Also, the good cleric with full turning kit probably has Greater Turning...

    So, a 12th level good cleric could dust up to a 34 HD undead.
    A 12 level evil cleric could command up to a 12 HD undead.

    How, exactly, is that better? I mean, other than spawn chaining, the good guy has the bad guy beat almost 3:1 on dusting vs commanding.
    Last edited by Keld Denar; 2011-02-07 at 02:08 PM.
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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    And...how? There are WAY more items to boost TU than there are to boost RU. Also, there is Greater Turning from the Sun domain which allows you to dust undead AT your turning level instead of half your turning level. There is no Sun domain equivalent of Rebuking, which means to COMMAND your DM's BBEG 200+ HD undead, you have to have a rebuking level of 400+. Which means, even with all of the available toys and goodies you can get for rebuking (of which there are WAY more for turning, and there is no inherant transperancy), you'd have to be like, ECL 385-390. Does D&D still work at level 390?

    Things that boost effective turning level, but not rebuking level:

    Ephod of Authority (MIC) +1
    Sacred Armor enhancement (A&EG) +2 (each)
    Phylactery of Undead Turning (DMG) +4
    Improved Turning feat (LM) +1

    Things that boost both effective turning and rebuking level:
    Rod of Defiance (LM) (-4 Turn Resistance)
    Lyre of the Restful Soul (LM) (-4 Turn Resistance)

    So...a good cleric can hit +18 effective turning level BEFORE rolling, which on a roll of 21+ is an undead 22 levels higher than him. An evil cleric fully kitted out can only get to +8, or +12 on a roll of 21+. Also, the good cleric with full turning kit probably has Greater Turning...

    So, a 12th level good cleric could dust up to a 34 HD undead.
    A 12 level evil cleric could command up to a 12 HD undead.

    How, exactly, is that better? I mean, other than spawn chaining, the good guy has the bad guy beat almost 3:1 on dusting vs commanding.


    I would think anything that improves Turning, also Improves Rebuking, and Vice-Versa. They are essentially the same thing, just use different energy's to achieve their effect.

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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    I would say that items that enhance channeling positive energy could not be used to augment negative energy use, but it's a simple thing to make negative energy equivalents of all those items.
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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Except that there is no such rule. If it doesn't specifically affect rebuking undead, it doesn't affect rebuking undead.

    Example: Extra Turning
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Benefit
    Each time you take this feat, you can use your ability to turn or rebuke creatures four more times per day than normal.

    If you have the ability to turn or rebuke more than one kind of creature each of your turning or rebuking abilities gains four additional uses per day.
    The feat is called Extra Turning, but in the text it specifically says turn or rebuke.

    Contrast with a Phylactery of Undead Turning
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Phylactery of Undead Turning
    This item is a boon to any character able to turn undead, allowing him to do so as if his class level were four levels higher than it actually is.
    Turning only. If it allowed you to rebuke as a cleric 1 level higher, it would use the same turn/rebuke language that Extra Turning uses. It doesn't. None of them do. So...yea, turning only.

    This is actually one case where good > evil. They don't happen often!
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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toraminus View Post

    I would think anything that improves Turning, also Improves Rebuking, and Vice-Versa. They are essentially the same thing, just use different energy's to achieve their effect.
    Turning and rebuking are only transparent if specifically called out to be (e.g. in divine feats like DMM.) Otherwise they are not the same ability.

    Psyrogue'd
    Last edited by Psyren; 2011-02-07 at 03:05 PM.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Psyrogue'd
    Given that we are talking about turning undead, would't it be more appropriate to say: Skull Clan Hunter'd?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    This is a little bit of a derail, but is there any spell out there that temporarily makes a creature count as undead? If so, combined with this stuff it could be abuse-tastic.
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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    There are a few spells, like Veil of Undeath, but most of them are defensive, rather than offensive, and thus would be tough to use aggressively.

    There is the spell Turn Anathema, in Complete Champion, which would allow you to turn outsiders with a subtype opposite one component of your alignement. Sadly, it specifically states that you can't dust them. Still, the fact that an optimized level 10 good cleric PC can turn 1-2 Balors per turn is kinda a lot hillarious.

    ...assuming the Balor doesn't just implode the little blighter first. Insides don't look that good when they are on the outside...
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
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    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Ranger with favoured enemy[Undead] has to be worth a mention, but its not a PrC and Clerics are way better most of the time.
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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Not sure how good it is, but there is Master of Radiance from Libris Mortis. Stacks for turn undead, and lets you create an aura of light that weakens undead (untyped -2 to attack, damage and saves), but you only get 3 uses a day if you take all 5 levels and each lasts 1 minute. Also lets you use Searing Light and Sunlight while the aura is up. Loses a spellcasting level, though.

    From the same book, there's Sacred Purifier, which gives another use of greater turning, lets you use turn attempts to do extra damage to undead, and lets you do a positive energy burst (doesn't say if it heals as well as damaging undead).

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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Illumine Soul could be interesting atop the Pathfinder Soulknife. (Your BAB would take a hit though.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Given that we are talking about turning undead, would't it be more appropriate to say: Skull Clan Hunter'd?
    I'm not familiar with that guy, so I'll have to take your word for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Its kinda a funky PrC from the MH, requires SA and TU to get in, but doesn't progress TU. Does let you apply SA damage to undead though.

    So, it has SA, like a ninja, but also has TU, which is what we were talking about. Thus...

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    Never mind...if you have to explain the joke, I gues its not that funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
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    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    I knew what you were getting at from the context, I'd just never heard of that PrC before.

    Also, Joker tells it like it is
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Best Anti-Undead Prestige Class?

    Yeah, it's pretty obscure. I mentioned it all the way back on page 1 of this thread.
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