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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Actions per turn

    For a while I've been crafting my own system based on D&D 3.5 and PF (as can be seen in my signature) and I have been wondering about whether or not to change the actions you can perform in one turn.

    Current system: Move + Standard, or one Full-Round
    Proposed system: 2 actions

    In this system, you can move then attack, move twice, attack twice or perform some other combination of actions (Such as pick up an item then move). Full-Round actions will use up both actions.

    This removes the distinction between move and standard actions, allowing some more choice in a turn. Characters would still be limited to one spell per turn.

    Note that free, swift and immediate actions still function the same and if a player decides to 5ft-step they cannot move that turn and cannot have already moved.

    There have been many other changes within the system already made but I was wondering what people thought of this since it changes something quite fundamental.
    I return!

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Actions per turn

    The only obvious issue that comes to mind is for martial characters, using one or more of the many, many ways to get additional move actions (which presumably now simply grant additional actions) and using them to initiate multiple martial strikes in one turn.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Actions per turn

    I'm building the game from the ground up for my new system, so I don't think the many ways will really count.

    The remade Haste spell grants an extra action, but that will be about it.

    I can see your concern though.
    I return!

    Currently working on my own game heavily influenced by D&D 3.5 and PF. All of it is OGL material. The finished version will be released on PDF at some point.

    Looking for people to add random fluff to my setting. PM me if you are interested.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Wannabehero's Avatar

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    Default Re: Actions per turn

    Another complication comes from the many spells that require only a standard action.

    Casters suddenly being able to cast multiple spells in a single turn (up to three with haste involved as you outlined it, or four with a quickened spell as well) can break many encounters.

    Web+Cloudkill (or any area damage spell that won't damage the web) comes to mind. 1 turn, combat is over as the party sits back and watches the enemies die. If it wasn't enough, follow up the next round with another area damage spell + Black Tentacles, just to make sure no one gets out of the death zone.

    Or cast Ray of Enfeeblement + Ray of Exhaustion (+ Blindness if hasted) to turn the BBEG into a pussycat in one round if you win initiative.

    8th level wizard, with haste on himself, could fire off three Fireballs in one turn. 24d6 damage, equivalent to the 9th level spell Meteor Swarm.

    Sure, you would eat through spells this way, but the major limiting factor in the strength of magic is the availability of actions. If you instituted your new action system, you would also need to completely rebalance the # of actions required for each spell, or simple hard-code a rule about only 1 spell per turn.


    Reading comprehension failure, nothing to see here.
    Last edited by Wannabehero; 2011-02-07 at 06:56 PM.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Actions per turn

    Um... I think I already covered this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rin_Hunter View Post
    This removes the distinction between move and standard actions, allowing some more choice in a turn. Characters would still be limited to one spell per turn.
    I return!

    Currently working on my own game heavily influenced by D&D 3.5 and PF. All of it is OGL material. The finished version will be released on PDF at some point.

    Looking for people to add random fluff to my setting. PM me if you are interested.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Wannabehero's Avatar

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    Default Re: Actions per turn

    Doh! My mistake, good thinking ahead then

    Edit: Are you removing the ability to quicken spells then? If not, but maintaining that rule, the spell level adjustment of the feat could probably be lessened, say to only +2 or +3 instead of four full levels.
    Last edited by Wannabehero; 2011-02-07 at 06:54 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Actions per turn

    There will be a Quicken, but the system will use spell points rather than fire and forget, so it will have a cost increase.
    I return!

    Currently working on my own game heavily influenced by D&D 3.5 and PF. All of it is OGL material. The finished version will be released on PDF at some point.

    Looking for people to add random fluff to my setting. PM me if you are interested.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BarroomBard's Avatar

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    Default Re: Actions per turn

    Why limit spell casters to only one spell per turn, but allow every other character to take two attack actions in one turn? And why can't they take a 5 ft step (representing a cautious, guarded movement) and then take their other action to move normally?

    To me, this change seems to be needless. The current set-up (or 4e's Standard, Move, Minor, set up) works very well, and allows tactical flexibility.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Actions per turn

    Quote Originally Posted by BarroomBard View Post
    And why can't they take a 5 ft step (representing a cautious, guarded movement) and then take their other action to move normally?
    That is how 5-ft. steps work in D&D. You can only take one if you take no other movement on your turn.
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

    "What you must learn is that these rules are no different than the rules of a computer system. Some of them can be bent. Others can be broken." - Morpheus, The Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by Krellen View Post
    Remember, Evil isn't "selfish". It's Evil. "Look out for number one" is a Neutral attitude. Evil looks out for number one while crushing number two.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Actions per turn

    Quote Originally Posted by BarroomBard View Post
    Why limit spell casters to only one spell per turn, but allow every other character to take two attack actions in one turn?
    Likely because of balance. Of course, balance is subjective...but as a general rule, there are quite a few spells that are (much) better than a single attack.
    Last edited by Gelscressor; 2011-02-11 at 07:09 PM.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Actions per turn

    Well, the one spell per turn is because of balance. Of the casters, I'm pretty sure only the Rune Mage (the new Wizard type in my system) will feel left behind, but they could still benefit from movement in the round.

    The Elementalist has a built in ray attack, therefore spell + that is its two actions.
    The Blade Caster does exactly what it says on the tin, so no surprise there.
    The Priest has Turning or Lay on Hands (granted these are situational).
    The Druid is pretty much the same, so spell then 5ft step in to attack if needed.

    Plus, if you think about the power differences betweem casters and non-casters at later levels, the Rogue getting two lots of Sneak Attack amounts to the same amount roughly as the Elementalist's ray and a fireball.

    On the subject of 5ft Steps, I've never played 4E, so I don't know how that works and I don't know if any of 4E is OGL, meaning I may not be able to use it in my new system anyway.

    I suppose I could allow a normal movement and a 5ft step as the two actions, but this just screams to me as the withdraw action.
    I return!

    Currently working on my own game heavily influenced by D&D 3.5 and PF. All of it is OGL material. The finished version will be released on PDF at some point.

    Looking for people to add random fluff to my setting. PM me if you are interested.

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