Making Skills Class Skills

[Endless Query]

Living up to my name here >_> I've been working on a lot weird designs on and off, and frequently they're stymied by a lack of skill points in proper skills. Why? Because some of the component classes don't have those skills as class skills. Very frustrating. I know in the FR Campaign setting book there was a feat to make skills class skills and give a +2 on the roll or something, but is there any efficient way to gain a couple class skills if you need them without burning a ton of feats or doing anything too crazy?

[Jarian]

A level of Factotum + Able Learner feat will make all skills class skills forever.

The Apprentice feats in the DMGII give various options for making a few skills class skills, and it's no great stretch to imagine that other apprenticeships could exist.

[Adamantrue]

I've Houseruled that when you first gain a new Class, you can add a new Class Skill by sacrificing 2 existing Class Skills.

So far, the option has only been used in good faith. No one has made an effort to pick up UMD, for example.

[dspeyer]

The wizards board made a list

[Thurbane]

Not sure if it's the same as the Wizards list, but BG has one too: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=6832.0

[Dsurion]

You could also just houserule. My group gets really sick of people who can do nothing but fight, so we hand out extra class skills and skill points to anyone who has a good justification, within reason. So big, dumb fighter who was a career mercenary knows how to heal his own wounds and and see things and hear things.

[Endless Query]

My GM hasn't really been into the houseruling (which kind of makes me miss my previous GM, who was all: The Pathfinder Skill System is easier, we'll use that. Which solved this issue before it even happened). But your suggestions have been quite useful, though, sadly, the apprentice feats apparently only keep something a class skill until 5th level, at which point you have to pay the Cross Class doubling (even if you can take it higher). And the Factotum + Able Learner would be awesome, if only I could swing this as human. It's a really good idea, though, I'll keep it in mind.

If it really comes down to it I might go Factotum + Skill Knowledge for one or two of the, er, problem children, so that might work.

Thanks for all the help/suggestions so far!

[Talbot]

One level of Human Paragon scores you any one skill as a class skill, and the martial study feats give you one each with the bonus of ALSO giving you a maneuver.

[Amnestic]

Not sure if it's the same as the Wizards list, but BG has one too: Thread

Your links a bit borked when I clicked on it. Fixed it for you in the quote

[RndmNumGen]

A level of Factotum + Able Learner feat will make all skills class skills forever.

How exactly does that work? I looked at both of those, but it doesn't seem that it would actually increase the max ranks in a skill?

[Dr Bwaa]

My groups houserule (I know you've said it's a general Nay on houserules, but hey) that the +2 to two skills feats also make them class skills if they're not already (basically as an incentive to ever take those feats).

[Amnestic]

How exactly does that work? I looked at both of those, but it doesn't seem that it would actually increase the max ranks in a skill?

When you multiclass, skills always have the class skill upper limit of both classes, no matter which one you level in (PHB pg. 59). Thus, Factotum having all skills is optimal for this as they have all skills. Able Learner means that even when you return to your first class, even though all the skills become technically cross-class again, they still only cost 1 point/rank, meaning you effectively have all skills as class skills.

[HunterOfJello]

This is easier to fix with houserules. If the game I'm DMing right now wasn't gestalt I would give all the characters Able Learner, +2 skill points per level, and 3 extra in-class skills of their choice.

I wrote a list of all the different skills in another thread and came up with around 150 of them. In groups smaller than 6 or so, characters are just better balanced with more skill points.

~

Two great examples of this which always annoy me are the Sorcerer and Fighter. Both classes get 2+Int skill points per level and are often classes that end up with a negative intelligence modifier. Giving any character who has above 4 Intelligence only 1 skill point per level is messed up.