Limits in multi-classing?

[H Birchgrove]

For example, what classes would you recommend against combining? Is there a risk that a PC stops being its core class if it multi-class into certain or too many other classes?

Thanks in advance.

[Crossblade]

You mean like Paladin vs Bard, Barbarian or Druid? Paladin has to be lawful good, first two have to be chaotic, Druid has to be a form of Neutral. Same goes for Monk vs Barbarian or Bard.

I suppose the rules state that Paladin and Monk can't multiclass back once left too...

[Radar]

IMO a PC is never a class - classes as well as levels and XP are only metagaming concepts and don't have to have anything to do with the nature of a PC. If you are planning a skillful warrior, who is prone to fits of rage and has a personal grudge against some specific type of monsters, then it would be perfectly normal to make him Rouge (1 level for the skills)/Ranger/Barbarian/Fighter. There are some classes that are strongly connected with a specific fluff - for example Mage of the Arcane Order doesn't make sense, if you ignore the whole "being a member of a mage guild" stuff. In most cases it's rather irrelevant.

[dsmiles]

Personally, I prefer to limit my multiclassing to just two or three classes/PrCs. I just feel like all those 1-level or 2-level dips ruin the game for me, so I don't do it. Of course, I'm not in it to work a "build."

[Keld Denar]

Recent thread is relevant. Well, it was before it turned into Wizard vs everyone.

Really, if you sit down and think about it, most PrCs that combine 2 base classes will often have 4+ classes. You have the 2 base classes that you are combining, then you have the PrC you are primarily entering, and then once you finish that, you generally have at least 4-5 levels left over (assuming a 5 level entry PrC with 10 levels). If you are lucky, there is another PrC that is similar enough to the first that you can continue your concept without having to go back into one base class or the other. I mean, take a look at this build, an Arcane Rogue:

Rogue1/Wizard4/UnseenSeer10/ArcaneTrickster5

4 classes, yet everything fits together. Unseen Seer and Arcane Trickster are so similar in their purpose that they might as well be the continuation of each other.

So yea, I think placing arbitrarily placing limits on multiclassing limits player creativity in a way that isn't really needed, and doesn't really work to restrict potential power. If I wanted to play the above build, but my DM told me that I couldn't have more than 2 classes, I'd probably say screw it and play straight Wizard20 instead, or something like Wizard10/MasterSpecialist10, which is stronger, but not what I wanted. So, in trying to restrict power, the DM has actually INCREASED the power of my character at the table, simply due to abitrary restrictions.

[Greenish]

Is there a risk that a PC stops being its core class if it multi-class into certain or too many other classes?

I think there's a risk that a single classed character starts to be the class, instead of being a character.

[Yora]

On the other hand, I think there's an increasing threat of players playing a built instead of a character as the number of class dips increases.
(Though this is mostly a corellation than a causal relationship. But I think limiting the players to "plain" builds helps to get them think of the character more as a person than a collection of abilities.)

[Cyrion]

Mechanically, one of the dangers of too much multiclassing is that you lose relative power level in a number of areas. For example, many presitge classes have +0 for BAB and one or more saves for their first level. Branch into too many of these without paying close attention to when you make the dip, and you've dropped noticeably behind where you "should" be for the level.

Similarly, if you scatter your multiclassing across too many character types, you also lose realative power quickly. You may be able to cast from every caster's list, but if you're the main caster and only have 2nd level spells when you're an 8th level character, you're going to have issues.

Conceptually, I think multiclassing is a great way to build the particular character you want to play and shouldn't be arbitrarily limited.

[Greenish]

Mechanically, one of the dangers of too much multiclassing is that you lose relative power level in a number of areas. For example, many presitge classes have +0 for BAB and one or more saves for their first level. Branch into too many of these without paying close attention to when you make the dip, and you've dropped noticeably behind where you "should" be for the level.

Fractional BAB and saves variant from UA (page 73) helps with that.

[TakeABow]

Mechanically, one of the dangers of too much multiclassing is that you lose relative power level in a number of areas. For example, many presitge classes have +0 for BAB and one or more saves for their first level. Branch into too many of these without paying close attention to when you make the dip, and you've dropped noticeably behind where you "should" be for the level.

You do gain tremendously from multiclassing when it comes to saves though since you get +2 to good saves at level 1 of a class.

[elonin]

For melee characters it doesn't seem to matter much either way. On the other hand multiclassing makes for a worse full progression casting pc.

[Cyrion]

You do gain tremendously from multiclassing when it comes to saves though since you get +2 to good saves at level 1 of a class.

You can, yes, but you can also end up with someone with, say, a Will save that's off the chart and a Fortitude save that barely progressed if you chose multiple classes that just advanced Will with an opening +2.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Aside from the RAW mult-classing penalties, never limit total class dips. This hurts melee while casters laugh.

Asking for a "finish what you started" on a PrC isn't unreasonable however - and in my opinion make casters think twice about grabbing one of the many, many awesome PrCs that lose a caster level towards the end