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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Post My OP monk made my DM cry.

    We're playing with pathfinder books but we also use 3.5 stuff, My lvl 6 monk has wiped every encounter we've faced in a dungeon built for 9th level characters thus far, I raped the final boss which was a lich because my hands are magic bludgeoning weapons and I just made this character without really trying. I'm completely exaggerating when I say my DM cried but he was getting pretty steamed over my monk.

    I started with 1 level of lion totem barbarian for pounce (I traded out rage for the lion totem ability) and fun times then went into monk to gain flurry of blows and other stuff like high jump, stunning fist and ki strike, I took battle jump which sounded like fun with pounce and high jump and I took knock down so now when I deal 15 damage or more I get a free trip attempt and I tend to knock the down a lot, and I get an AoO when they get up. but I think it became really OP really fast.

    The party seems to like me but the DM is getting kind of frustrated with with me.

    Should I just scrap the character and start anew?

    (Just as a note b4 I came along the DM seemed to be killing off party members left and right from what I've heard.)
    Last edited by Reprimand; 2011-02-08 at 06:54 PM.

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    At this point I'd say your DM brought it on himself. For one, he let you ignore the alignment requirements for barbarian and monk. And then he let a monk have pounce. Geeeeeeez.

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    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Wait...monk...OP...what?

    *asplodes*

    Could you post a link to the sheet or something? What are you using, like, 42 point buy?

    Granted, Lion Totem Barb + Monk solves the big problem with mobility + full attacking, and Battle Jump does a decent job of amping up damage, assuming you can make the high jump checks needed to jump over someone, but still...

    Buh wha?
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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyIgoo View Post
    At this point I'd say your DM brought it on himself. For one, he let you ignore the alignment requirements for barbarian and monk. And then he let a monk have pounce. Geeeeeeez.
    Alignment works, assuming he turned lawful. He'd lose rage, but keep Pounce.
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Make sure your DM knows you can't use Flurry and Pounce together. Flurry is a full round action, not a full attack.
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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Heh . . . a quick google search for "My OP monk" reveals this as one of five times that phrase has been used, and it is the only time that "My OP monk made my DM cry" has been used

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    I mean, I know he could have a big change of heart and go from chaotic to lawful-- mechanically it's pretty easily solved. But RP-wise that's a bit of a jump. I've never been one to take alignment changes lightly.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Talbot's Avatar

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    There is a Chaotic Monk variant in one of the Dragon Mags. Although I'm not sure whether or not it still gets Flurry.

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    It sounds to me like your DM is maybe just used to a very low-optimization group. You're not overpowered in the great scale of the game, but it can be a nasty shock to a DM to run into a character that does something reasonably effectively if the rest of the group normally struggles with challenges as written in a module (note: pre-written modules are notorious for generally being quite soft. A 9th-level module is likely to be a pretty appropriate task or even easy for an optimized 6th-level party.)

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    It is even easier to fix by ignoring the alignment requirements as always chaotic on barbarians doesn't make much sense imo.
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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    It sounds to me like your DM is maybe just used to a very low-optimization group. You're not overpowered in the great scale of the game, but it can be a nasty shock to a DM to run into a character that does something reasonably effectively if the rest of the group normally struggles with challenges as written in a module (note: pre-written modules are notorious for generally being quite soft. A 9th-level module is likely to be a pretty appropriate task or even easy for an optimized 6th-level party.)
    This. What's the rest of the party composition? Does the wizard use fireballs? Does the cleric heal during combat? Does the fighter use sword n' board? If yes to any of those, I think we have our answer.
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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    ...Yeah, we need to see some sheets here.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    I though Barbarians were just non-lawful? Neutral to Lawful is not a huge alignment jump.
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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey McBannert View Post
    Make sure your DM knows you can't use Flurry and Pounce together. Flurry is a full round action, not a full attack.
    ? Both the PHB and the Pathfinder book use the full attack language.
    assuming you can make the high jump checks needed to jump over someone,
    This, incidentally, is pretty easy for a Pathfinder monk- they always count as getting a running start, 1/2 class level as a bonus to Acrobatics checks, speed bonus gives a jump bonus for being faster than 30 feet, and if they're willing to spend a Ki point on it, they can cast Jump on themselves. Not too hard to get the 40+ check you'll need to clear a standard Medium opponent. Pretty good way to hammer some of the class abilities into actually working with each other, really.
    Last edited by tyckspoon; 2011-02-08 at 07:23 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    How is the rest of the group so far as power? You are an Overpowered monk with everything you put together, (I would say bordering on cheese consider the alignment problem, but w/e)

    Is the rest of the group as dip/splat-tastic as you are?

    If not, it makes sense that you can trounce everything the GM puts in your way. I imagine he will start beefing up enemies, or making them immune to your awesomeness or perhaps just use better tactics.

    What kind of GM is he? How long have you been destroying his bad guys with little effort?

    Perhaps you should get a new character, or dial down your monk a bit.

    I also see there's no real role playing problems here. Which means the actual role playing part doesn't interest you, or that isn't a problem in the game. I'm hoping it's the latter.

    Perhaps you could have your character be a bit more monk-like and reserved? He knows he can kick anyone's butt in a moment's notice, but he chooses to fight only as a last resort. You can go around with a hood over your head and stand silently while the others fight, doing something like trying to talk the lich out of this silly battle, or perhaps even meditating...

    And only when someone interrupts your meditation do you come to life, pouncing, high jumping, shock troopering, flurry of blowing (lol) and destroy the thing that dared to touch you.

    Then go back to your meditating as the rest of the group fights on around you....

    Argh, now I wish I had a high powered monk. That would be so awesome!

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    It is even easier to fix by ignoring the alignment requirements as always chaotic on barbarians doesn't make much sense imo.
    Barbarians are any non-lawful, though.

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    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Barbarians can become lawful. The only thing a lawful barbarian loses is the ability to rage. Pounce, the main reason to dip Spirit Lion Barb, would be preserved regardless of alignment.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Trip spam builds seem overpowered towards the beginning. Wouldn't reroll at all, merely be prepared to lose effectiveness when facing larger, stronger opponents unless you focus exclusively on tripping. For instance, centaurs receive a +12 against trips (large, quadruped, 18str) and are only CR3, and similar enemies are easy to create.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey McBannert View Post
    Make sure your DM knows you can't use Flurry and Pounce together. Flurry is a full round action, not a full attack.
    Flurry is a full attack action, not full round, and pounce specifically permits a full attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flurry of Blows
    A monk must use a full attack action (see page 143) to strike with a flurry of blows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pounce
    When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack
    Besides, needing to make a full attack action to use flurry of blows is one of the many poor design elements of the monk. Despite being permitted by pounce, the language is still more restrictive than necessary considering the limited power of monks and should always include an additional attack on either attack option.

  19. - Top - End - #19
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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    And frankly, RPed well, a Neutral/Lawful shift's no big deal.

    So far, I've seen nothing that says this is really that bad. Your group seems to have very little optimization in it; a Monk 5/ Barbarian 1 with Pounce and Knock-Down is decent, but not horribly powerful. Your DM probably just doesn't have much experience with optimization; that's okay, just tone it down a bit or use it in a way that makes the party shine instead of just you.

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    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    I am seeing a lot of feats, though...

    Hmmm, Human Barb1/Monk5

    H Battle Jump
    1 Combat Expertese
    M1 Stunning Fist
    M2 Combat Reflexes
    3 Improved Trip
    6 Knockdown

    Note that going this way is a huge ability tax. Combat Expertese requires a 13+ Int, which takes away precious ability points from Str/Dex/Wis/Con...

    Unless he went Barb2/Monk4 and took Spirit Lion Totem and UA Wolf Totem. Granted, nothing says you can't build that way, but mixing totems is often frowned upon. Then he could have:

    H Battle Jump
    1 X
    B2 Improved Trip
    M1 Stunning Fist
    3 Knockdown
    M2 Combat Reflexes
    6 X

    Which would be a bit more optimal, leaving 2 feats open or negating the requirements of Human only.

    Just some build speculation...
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talbot View Post
    There is a Chaotic Monk variant in one of the Dragon Mags. Although I'm not sure whether or not it still gets Flurry.
    It doesn't get "Flurry" it gets "Chaotic Flurry".
    Instead of a set number of attacks you roll a die and get that many extra attacks. I think it starts at 1d4-1 at ChaosMonk1 and gains from there.
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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Note that going this way is a huge ability tax. Combat Expertese requires a 13+ Int, which takes away precious ability points from Str/Dex/Wis/Con...
    You know, it's possible he rolled for his abilities...

    Always kinda bugs me on these boards, assuming that because one of your stats is decentish, that the rest had to suffer for it...

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    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Yea...I guess I always assume point buy, as it is the great equalizer. I've done rolling before, and you always get that guy who shows up to the session with 3 18s and swears he rolled them.
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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Yea...I guess I always assume point buy, as it is the great equalizer. I've done rolling before, and you always get that guy who shows up to the session with 3 18s and swears he rolled them.
    I'll admit, that bugs me, too - and then there are the DMs that let you reroll until you have 3 18s "naturally." Honestly, if it's gonna be that much hassle, I would rather use point-buy. But with that in mind, I suppose point-buy's not a bad assumption to make.

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    I am seeing a lot of feats, though...

    Hmmm, Human Barb1/Monk5

    H Battle Jump
    1 Combat Expertese
    M1 Stunning Fist
    M2 Combat Reflexes
    3 Improved Trip
    6 Knockdown

    Note that going this way is a huge ability tax. Combat Expertese requires a 13+ Int, which takes away precious ability points from Str/Dex/Wis/Con...
    For what it's worth, I believe the PF monk gets improved trip as a bonus feat, which would remove the need for combat expertise (and thus, for the Int), if he shuffled Combat Reflexes to one of his "real" feats.

    Still, unless he got the Improved Natural Attack houseruled in for a monk (making STR another dump stat), it still needs quite a few good rolls to be amazing.
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    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Non-PF monks get Imp Trip as their 6th level bonus feat, but the OP stated he's 6th level, and has at least 1 level of barb, so that ruled that out.

    Also, you don't need a house rule for INA to work for a monk. UASs are natural attacks in ALL regards, EXCEPT for the fact that they make iterative attacks (which normal natural attacks don't). INA is a perfectly legal choice for UASs in any circumstance, assuming you meet the +4 BAB minimum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Also, you don't need a house rule for INA to work for a monk. UASs are natural attacks in ALL regards, EXCEPT for the fact that they make iterative attacks (which normal natural attacks don't). INA is a perfectly legal choice for UASs in any circumstance, assuming you meet the +4 BAB minimum.
    Pathfinder lead developer/one of the lead developers made a ruling that it doesn't work. Used incredibly flimsy/no rules justification for it, so it's basically a "because I don't like the idea, that's why", but it's officially the intent for Pathfinder that Monks do not use INA and might have made it into an actual errata by now. (I suspect a similar negative answer would be given to any question regarding a PC taking a 'monster' feat.)

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    To be clear, you have Battle Jump and Pounce. You could be a commoner with those abilities and still be scary. I'd normally add Shock Trooper and Leap Attack, but whatever. Monk may be in the build, but all Monk is doing is lowering your chance to hit but giving an extra attack and some bonus feats (Fighter would likely be better).

    Seriously, check this out: Human Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Commoner 5 with Battle Jump, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Leap Attack. Pick up a Glaive. Kill fools.

    JaronK

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    Besides at level 6 melee is awesome! Ask again around level13 and then level20 and watch as it progress to less awesome :(.

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    PirateWench

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    Default Re: My OP monk made my DM cry.

    i dont understand how you /hit/ a lvl 11 spellcaster let alone defeated one. Knockdown etc dont mean alot when he just kills you on his next turn.

    Monks have good saves but dc 22+ saves are only 50% chance of success on level appropriate PC's

    But ultimately, while 3.5 stuff can be used it really shouldnt be used unrestricted with PF.

    theres a reason Pounce is level 10 barbarian thing in PF

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