Easy to play (but not useless) Builds? [3.5]

[Chilingsworth]

Hey guys!

Looks like my google-fu is weak.

I tried searching this forum for Simple builds, but only found a thread for spellcaster and ToB builds.

I need a build for my fiance. She's tried playing a cleric and a druid. As a result of her experiences, she's sworn off of spellcaster (and presumably, spellcaster-like) characters.

Is it possible to build a decent character that isn't complete suck using only Fighter and Barbarian levels and similiar PrC's?

Character Level 9th.

Also, I know I'm tending to ask more from this forum than I can give. I apologize for this.

EDIT: for 3.5, my bad!

EDIT2:

Some info I probably should have mentioned: Human only.

Sources available:
Core Plus
PHB2
Sandstorm (it's a desert camapgin,)
Complete Warrior
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Mage
Heroes of Battle
Heroes of Horror

[Da Beast]

"Useless" kind of depends on the relative power of the group. Most melee (non-ToB) builds are easy to play to the point of being boring after the first couple minutes. If it was the mechanics of a caster that put her off and not the flavor I'd recommend warlock from Complete Arcane. Gets a handful of useful but not too powerful spell like abilities that can be used at will. If you don't like any of your invocations for the current situation, you can always just throw eldritch blasts.

[Keld Denar]

Like Warlock, Dragonfire Adept it pretty easy to learn. You have your breath, a couple of breath effects, and a couple invocations. Its enough to keep things interesting, but not so much as to overwhelm a newbie.

ToB classes are pretty good, especially like, a Warblade or Crusader. Just explain what their couple maneuvers do, and how the recovery system works (not THAt hard to explain), and you are golden.

Heck, in that regard, even a Sorcerer isn't hard to play as long as you avoid open ended spells like Alter Self. Glitterdust is fun, intuitive, and effective, for example.

[Lateral]

Hmm... With only Fighter and Barbarian, I'd go for either a tripper or a charger. Charger is simpler, but trippers are (IMHO) more fun and more useful when charging isn't viable.
For a charger, you'd want to go Barbarian X/Fighter 2 (or just straight Barbarian), wield a greatsword or something similar (just something 2-handed), and pick up Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush.

After that, it depends on your sources- if you have Complete Warrior, add in Shock Trooper, and if you have Complete Champion add in Spirit Lion Totem ACF. If you're large or have Powerful Build, take Knockback.
In combat, you'd charge at the nearest enemy, use Power Attack, and beat your target to a bloody pulp. If you have Shock Trooper, you use Power Attack for more (usually) and beat your target to a bloody pulp harder. If you have Spirit Lion Totem, you charge and beat them to a bloody pulp multiple times. If you have Knockback, you beat them to a bloody pulp while smashing them across the room. Simple to play, since it just involves smashing people's brains in.

If you're open to other classes, I second Dragonfire Adept. With that, take Entangling Exhalation to make your breath weapon do damage over time and entangle the enemy, and you're golden.
The build skeleton given above should be doable at level 9 with a Goliath Barbarian 7/ Fighter 2; a DFA can have Entangling Exhalation at level one.

[Chilingsworth]

Hmm...

Thanks for the tips.
Some info I probably should have mentioned: Human only.

Sources available:
Core Plus
PHB2
Sandstorm (it's a desert camapgin,)
Complete Warrior
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Mage
Heroes of Battle
Heroes of Horror

That's about it, at least that I see any point in mentioning or trying to use.
Complete Champion's Lion Totem is explicitly Banned by my DM.

[Lateral]

Fair enough. Okay, then; I don't know much about Sandstorm. With Human-Only, that eliminates Knockback, but Shock Trooper's fair game 'cause you have CW on that list. I'd suggest Leap Attack, but I don't think it's in any of those books. Take Power Attack, take Shock Trooper, and don't look back.

For a good Tripper build, look up 'Horizon Tripper'.

[Shyftir]

That's about it, at least that I see any point in mentioning or trying to use.
Complete Champion's Lion Totem is explicitly Banned by my DM.

Because melee can't have nice things.

[Chilingsworth]

Because melee can't have nice things.

Not so! My DM doesn't have anything against ToB classes at all! (and it's possible to get pounce through manuvers or stances, at least More-or-Less)

It's just that I'm concerned about the complexity of ToB builds.

[Lateral]

Eh, I'm playing a Warblade right now. It's my first one, and it's a piece of cake. Granted, he's first level, but still- it's a spiked chain tripper, too, and I'm having no problems. Most maneuvers are pretty simple since they're written similarly to spells, and the Warblade's recovery mechanic's really intuitive. Just take the simpler-looking ones (Steel Wind, Ruby Nightmare Blade, IRON HEART SURGE, et cetera), and she should do fine.

[Kylarra]

If you grab maneuver cards, ToB isn't too complicated since they're strong out of the box and the maneuvers are just delicious icing.


Duskblade is another good choice for a gishy fighter. Sure it's a "caster" but only in terms of damage output increases for the most part.

[HunterOfJello]

Duskblade
Rogue/Swashbuckler with Daring Outlaw

Anything from Tome of Battle (Warblade is great out of the box)

Wildshape Variant Ranger is also decent

~

Has the player tried out any of the spontaneous spellcasters? Maybe she'd enjoy playing a Sorcerer, Favored Soul or one of the Sorcerer variants (Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Warmage).

It might surprise her how different a spontaneous caster is compared to a prepared caster. They seem identical, but are very different in play.

~

Also, there's always the Bard.

[Tvtyrant]

Play a Sorc that takes Draconic Heritage: Dragons Breathe and just breathe fire on the enemy? You do 2d6 with a 1 level slot, 4d6 with a second, etc. It gets weaker over time compared to other spells (4d6 is equal to 1 of the 4 rays scorching ray gets for instance) but by then you will understand the mechanics of the game better.

Probably best to take Acid for the type of breathe though.

[gorfnab]

How about Supermount?

Spoiler

Show

LG Strongheart Halfling
1. Paladin - Mounted Combat, Track
2. Paladin
3. Paladin - Skill Focus: Handle Animal (prereq for Beast Master)
4. Paladin
5. Paladin
6. Beastmaster - Devoted Tracker
7. Beastmaster
8. Wild Plains Outrider
9. Wild Plains Outrider - Mounted Archery
10. Wild Plains Outrider
11. Halfling Outrider
12. Halfling Outrider - Natural Bond
13. Halfling Outrider
14. Halfling Outrider
15. Halfling Outrider - Ride By Attack (or some other feat)
16. Halfling Outrider
17. Halfling Outrider
18. Halfling Outrider - Spirited Charge (or some other feat)
19. Halfling Outrider
20. Halfling Outrider

Special Mount: 18th level Paladin = Paladin 5 + Wild Plains 3 + Half-Out 10
Animal Companion: 18th level Druid = Beast Master 5 + Natural Bond 3 + Half-Out 10

Books required: PHB, CAdv, CW, and FRCS.

Edit: Just saw Human only. In that case substitute Faith Scion from Unearthed Arcana for Halfling Outrider.

[NMBLNG]

I ran into a problem very similar to this.

I'm going to assume that your party doesn't have Pun-Pun or a Batman Wizard or anything like it. Let's also assume that the group can make use of another frontliner.

Don't make a build that focuses on charging, or tripping, or anything else complicated. Make a build that focuses on HITTING THINGS AND KILLING THEM. We actually used the Samurai class (yes, the Samurai class) but altered it to work with a reach weapon. I think it was a heavy halberd or something. Good opportunity attacks, critical hits, reach, stuff like that. You could probably do the same with a fighter or something. Add some tripping and you'll be fine.

It probably wasn't the most powerful build. But it was straightforward and could contribute to the fight.

[Serpentine]

I'll throw in a vote for Knight. It has enough extra abilities to be interesting, is pretty straightforward and simple - the most complicated thing is probably if you give it a mount - and although I think it's generally considered lowish in power (what tier, anyone? 3 or 4?), I would expect it to be reasonably easy to boost a bit or at least handle well. You'll need someone else to give tips in that regard, though - the only Knight I've played is a deliberately subpar DMPC.

[Draz74]

Just a basic Barbarian X / Fighter 2 with Power Attack and Shock Trooper is plenty effective in most campaigns, as long as the DM isn't obsessed with flying monsters or anything.

Dragonfire Adept is indeed the way to go if she still likes the feel of a caster but wants ultra-easy bookkeeping. And it's free online, other than guessing the Save DCs of some of its Invocations.

Other than those, I'll add another vote for the Horizon Tripper.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

If you can convince the DM to allow Complete Champion I would suggest the Ubercharger. It consists of only Fighter/Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker. CC because of the Lion Totem ACF to get pounce for barbarian but other than that it should be doable with the sources given.

Didn't see the ban already in place.

[Kobold Esq]

I notice everyone picking warriors... why not a rogue?

I find that many players who are not strong on mechanics can still be productive, creative members of a group. The skill check system is straight forward enough for most players. With a robust enough set of skills, she won't even have to worry about whether or not she has the right skills.

Just make sure she has most of the "roguey" skills, and let her imagination do the work. When it is time to make a check, just tell her which line to look at to add to the die roll.

Combat is fairly straightforward assuming she understands how tumble works to avoid AoOs when trying to flank.

[Serpentine]

Rogue is also good, for pretty much the same reasons I suggest Knight.

[bokodasu]

t's just that I'm concerned about the complexity of ToB builds.

Ok, let me throw in that, based on the advice of the forums, I built my daughter a swordsage, and she's playing it with no problem. And she's seven. I printed out the maneuver cards for her, which is the essential step, and she just slaps 'em down and kills stuff.

I think warblade is maybe better, but she wanted to do the unarmed thing and we plan on throwing in a couple levels of psychic warrior at some point. Which is another option; I built a psychic warrior tripper for myself who's incredibly easy to play. Manifest one power (usually expansion) at the start of combat and then just hit stuff. You do have to put all your weapons plus their enlarged stats on the character sheet first, though. But it opens up a bunch of options besides hitting things - now you can use powerstones to hide, or become immune to gaze attacks, or heal yourself, whatever.

Also, I recommend the Horizon Tripper for simple, useful, and easy to play, AND you have the advantage of having it mostly built out for you already.

[true_shinken]

Because melee can't have nice things.

Lion Totem Barbarian is unbalaced within other melee choices. Before Complete Champion, getting pounce was somewhat hard.
Giving up fast movement for that ability seems too good. I'm thinking of banning it in my games as well.

[Greenish]

Lion Totem Barbarian is unbalaced within other melee choices.

Because melee choices that do not involve some method of gaining a full attack (or equivalent) and movement are not nice things.

Yeah, Spirit Lion Totem barbarian 1 is too easy to get, but most of the other methods are too late (especially if you TWF).


That said, for a desert campaign, how about Ashworm Dragoon? Mounted combat is a very traditional way to make a melee character with offence and mobility, and Ashworm Dragoon is awesome.

If she ever wants to dapple with casting again some time in the future, I recommend fixed-list casters: beguiler, dread necromancer and even warmage.

[true_shinken]

Because melee choices that do not involve some method of gaining a full attack (or equivalent) and movement are not nice things.

I don't know if you are really disagreeing or just being snarky, but there are plenty other ways to grab pounce or free movement outside of Lion Totem Barbarian. Travel Devotion and Dimension Hop are just a feat away, right there at level 1. FR has regional feats for limited pounce as well (and they don't suck as much as TW Pounce). No holds barred pounce for a single level feels a bit too strong for me.
Pathfinder seems to put pounce-like abilities at around ECL 11 (the same level on which Singh Rager gets it, even) so I'd say it's fine to get 'for free' (as a class feature in an otherwise already good class) then.

[Incompleat]

A vanilla human Barbarian is definitely simple, and makes for a perfectly viable tank.

Plus, barbarians are just fun to roleplay :)

[Amphetryon]

With Sandstorm on the table, heading to Ashworm Dragoon makes for a fairly simple choice. It can be built similarly to Supermount, or you can mix Fighter/Barb if you prefer. Mounted Barbarian is an unusual choice, though.

[Greenish]

Mounted Barbarian is an unusual choice, though.

The Mongol Hordes beg to disagree.

[Amphetryon]

The Mongol Hordes beg to disagree.

Oh, certainly. It's underrepresented as a build choice, though, at least one highlighted on the boards. There are a couple examples, but their vocal proponents are not many.

[true_shinken]

The Mongol Hordes beg to disagree.

To be fair, they smell of Fighter more than Barbarians.
Except for the effectiveness, of course.

[Greenish]

Oh, certainly. It's underrepresented as a build choice, though, at least one highlighted on the boards.

Well, that's true for most mounted characters. The only ones I see with any regularity are the Spirited Chargers. Still, barbarians have ride and handle animal, whirling frenzy for mounted archery and a handful of less well known ACFs for mounted combat, I seem to recall.

To be fair, they smell of Fighter more than Barbarians.

They're multiclassing, like non-casters are wont to do. Hit'n'Run fighter, whirling frenzy barb, archery ranger, maybe some scout levels in there.

Which reminds me: Stupid Scout Errata!

[Kaww]

A vanilla human Barbarian is definitely simple, and makes for a perfectly viable tank.

Plus, barbarians are just fun to roleplay :)

Pun intended? Because it made laugh...

...
Which reminds me: Stupid Scout Errata!

I guess you liked your scouts mounted?