How to make teh uber commoner

[Draculmaulkee]

I was reading http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186651, which was talking about a monk was overpowering a low-level game. This led me to another question: how could a commoner overpower a low-level game?

So Playgrounders, how would you build an uber commoner?

Simply Put
Given: A level 5 commoner
Optimize: Everything, but combat ability and survivability should take higher priority. Go crazy (Note: Pun-Pun and other infinite loop builds aren't very creative and should be avoided)
EDIT: I guess I left this too open-ended. I'm looking for feat, race, and skill combinations that would significantly increase the commoner's power.
Sources: Any 3.5 WotC source.

I look forward to seeing the ideas of the Playgrounders. Thanks!

[Lateral]

Well, JaronK made a Commoner charger that was able to do massive damage at around level 5 or 6.

Aside from that? Two words: 'Handle Animal'.

Alternatively, 'Craft (Basketweaving)'.

[Draculmaulkee]

Could you link or post JaronK's build?

[Bibliomancer]

The flaw 'chicken-infested' might qualify as an infinite loop, but you could easily stop at, say, a finite number of chickens.

Even drawing 20 chickens a round will certainly confuse your opponent, especially if combined with handle animal.

[Lateral]

Could you link or post JaronK's build?

It may have been swallowed in the fires of Gleemax. If it still exists, I can't find it, but JaronK probably can and he's been seen on these forums recently.

[CycloneJoker]

I was reading http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186651, which was talking about a monk was overpowering a low-level game. This led me to another question: how could a commoner overpower a low-level game?

So Playgrounders, how would you build an uber commoner?

Simply Put
Given: A level 5 commoner
Optimize: Everything, but combat ability and survivability should take higher priority. Go crazy (Note: Pun-Pun and other infinite loop builds aren't very creative and should be avoided)
Sources: Any 3.5 WotC source.

I look forward to seeing the ideas of the Playgrounders. Thanks!

1 word: Sandstorm. Level 2, you have 900gp. spend 480 GP on a lv 12 wizard to get you a wall of salt, and by my calculations from a couple days ago, you get about 243,469 GP, as salt is 5GP a pound, and 1 salt is 2.16 G/ML, IIRC. Get as much money as you want, use it to finance Magic Items. There, I have all of the magic items in the books as free slots. Mindrape, PaO, and True Mind Switch come to mind, TMS for immortality. Continue from there.

[Bibliomancer]

1 word: Sandstorm. Level 2, you have 900gp. spend 480 GP on a lv 12 wizard to get you a wall of salt, and by my calculations from a couple days ago, you get about 243,469 GP, as salt is 5GP a pound, and 1 salt is 2.16 G/ML, IIRC. Get as much money as you want, use it to finance Magic Items. There, I have all of the magic items in the books as free slots. Mindrape, PaO, and True Mind Switch come to mind, TMS for immortality. Continue from there.

This reminds me that I really should get around to statting up an Inevitable of capitalism whose left fist is Supply and whose right fist is Demand.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Expanding on the above's answer: EDIT: Cyclone Joker's answer (NINJAS!)
Pay lvl12 Wizard for a Wall of Salt spell.
Sell Salt
Buy a Ring of At-Will Wall of Salt
Sell Salt
Buy any magic item you want

[dextercorvia]

Normal WBL? What point buy?

[CycloneJoker]

This reminds me that I really should get around to statting up an Inevitable of capitalism whose left fist is Supply and whose right fist is Demand.

I don't make the rules, but they were fairly clear. Screw logic, common sense, and basic ideas of economics, I have rules!

Still, I am assuming any sort of RAW is viable here, since we're working with Commoners, and I accomplished it 3 levels early.

Also, I want to do the same thing with Communism, the fists of "Amazing Ideally" and "People are Bastards, and Will Screw This Up," but that is slightly off-topic.

[chaos_redefined]

Handle Animal -> Get it as high as you can, then go get a roc egg. Have fun.

[Draculmaulkee]

@ dextercorvia
Standard WBL and 32 point buy sounds pretty good

[Saph]

1 word: Sandstorm. Level 2, you have 900gp. spend 480 GP on a lv 12 wizard to get you a wall of salt, and by my calculations from a couple days ago, you get about 243,469 GP, as salt is 5GP a pound, and 1 salt is 2.16 G/ML, IIRC. Get as much money as you want, use it to finance Magic Items. There, I have all of the magic items in the books as free slots. Mindrape, PaO, and True Mind Switch come to mind, TMS for immortality. Continue from there.

So you're going to buy the services of someone with access to an infinite supply of gold by . . . offering him gold?

Good luck with that.

[OracleofWuffing]

I don't make the rules, but they were fairly clear. Screw logic, common sense, and basic ideas of economics, I have rules!

Eh, just float the inevitable a bribe and you'll be back to business in no time.

[CycloneJoker]

So you're going to buy the services of someone with access to an infinite supply of gold by . . . offering him gold?

Good luck with that.

A) he said go crazy, and by RAW you can. Also, maybe he didn't think about it? Then, go to different Wizards/change local MagicMarts™ every now and again, and I don't see a problem.

[CycloneJoker]

Eh, just float the inevitable a bribe and you'll be back to business in no time.

Ah, forgot the Golden Rule of Capitalism: "A silver tongue will get you fairly far, but enough palm grease will get you a lot farther.."

[Saph]

A) he said go crazy, and by RAW you can. Also, maybe he didn't think about it? Then, go to different Wizards/change local MagicMarts™ every now and again, and I don't see a problem.

You're relying on an easily available loophole to get infinite gold, and yet expecting everyone else to place any value on your gold. I'm afraid your plan is made of fail.

[JaronK]

The crazy charger commoner I made was level 18, so it may not help that much, but the basic idea was a Dragonborn (wings) Water Orc Commoner who rides a big flying mount (I used a Magebreed War Roc, but anything will do here). He wielded a Valorous Skillfull Lance (which sets his BAB to 3/4 and gives proficiency, in addition to the damage multiplier), and his feats were Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Headlong Rush, Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack, and Spirited Charge (flaws weren't allowed for the particular contest I made this guy for). While wearing riding boots he had a X7 charge multiplier (Valorous + Headlong Rush + Lance + Spirited Charge + Boots+ Dive Attack) and at level 18 he could sack 13 AC for a base +26 Power Attack damage (which multiplied to 182). He had Permanent Enlarge Person for the reach and strength increase, and had a pumped up initiative via +1 Eager Armor Spikes of Warning on his Leather Armor (no ACP = non proficiency doesn't matter). And he had a bunch of one off items that boosted one attack at a time, like items that would grant True Strike or rerolls. He also wore a Blindfold of True Darkness so that Mirror Image wouldn't fool him, and had purchased a casting of Awaken so his mount was intelligent enough to pick charge targets for him. And he had a lot of strength.

I don't remember his total damage per attack on the charge, but it was enough to one shot TKO anything short of epic enemies except a Terrasque. And he could one hit kill CR appropriate enemies through most of his career, too, as long as he had a decent mount. He really took off at level 12, where he could finally actually take Shock Trooper and Spirited Charge (one at 12, one at 15, of course). With flaws he's even nastier as he can get some of his feats earlier, but it's not a huge deal. Conceptually it's not hard, you just have a really high strength and a two handed weapon and you smash people up with it.

If flaws were allowed, Infested with Chickens would be priority one. If nothing else, it makes it a lot easier to feed your mount.

JaronK

[CycloneJoker]

You're relying on an easily available loophole to get infinite gold, and yet expecting everyone else to place any value on your gold. I'm afraid your plan is made of fail.

Dude, buy a use-activated ring of MindRape for 360,000 and make them forget. Or just play this around you when you call the wizard, and he'll never want to think about you or anything related to you EVER again.

Also, 4 or so "unsolvable" proofs were solved by a college student Someone might not have thought about it, and I can grease enough palms for the word not to get out. I'm good.

[Saph]

Dude, buy a use-activated ring of MindRape for 360,000 and make them forget.

"Hi, Mr 20th-Level Evil Wizard with the 30 Intelligence? Yeah, I'd like you to spend a year or so and 14,400 XP making a magic item for me. But don't worry, I'll pay you lots of gold - you know, the stuff you have an infinite supply of."

[dextercorvia]

It's not broken in this since, but there is a campaign journal around about a commoner with the Wild Cohort feat and two trained oxen. That is a really good read. I wish I could remember more, I think it might be a goblin character....

[CycloneJoker]

"Hi, Mr 20th-Level Evil Wizard with the 30 Intelligence? Yeah, I'd like you to spend a year or so and 14,400 XP making a magic item for me. But don't worry, I'll pay you lots of gold - you know, the stuff you have an infinite supply of."

Ah, but they're part of some Wizard's community. It's not polite to destabilize the economy before your inferiors can climb up. Or take Chicken Infested, make sure he's LE, and bet that you can put more creatures in front of you in one minute.

EDIT: This is RAW we're going by, anyways. I'd abuse the Masochism Water Pail trick.

Also, I'll just buy a Ring of 3 Wishes for 97,000 or so, and use that to get my Magic Items that way.

[Draculmaulkee]

Just get lotz of gold!!!

A level 1 elf commoner can just farm for 100 years and make greater than 50,000 gp with practically no optimization. Or you can just cut ladders in half and sell them as 2 10 foot poles. Breaking the D&D WBL isn't exactly hard. Which means that everyone can do it. Which means that the D&D economic system as is doesn't work. Which means it isn't a valid option for a character build.

[CycloneJoker]

A level 1 elf commoner can just farm for 100 years and make greater than 50,000 gp with practically no optimization. Or you can just cut ladders in half and sell them as 2 10 foot poles. Breaking the D&D WBL isn't exactly hard. Which means that everyone can do it. Which means that the D&D economic system as is doesn't work. Which means it isn't a valid option for a character build.

Ah, and it is easy to save a dying person with a bucket of water, so D&D healing doesn't work? Real people can only be level 5 at best, so nobody can beat level 5? A good Cleric can cure any disease, so they should have died out, yet they didn't so, no. It works, just like any other RAW abuse form of optimization, though mine is fairly mild. You might as well be saying "I wouldn't allow Pun-Pun/Omnicificer/Batman, so they aren't busted." It is WRONG.

[Draculmaulkee]

Ah, and it is easy to save a dying person with a bucket of water, so D&D healing doesn't work? Real people can only be level 5 at best, so nobody can beat level 5? A good Cleric can cure any disease, so they should have died out, yet they didn't so, no. It works, just like any other RAW abuse form of optimization, though mine is fairly mild. You might as well be saying "I wouldn't allow Pun-Pun/Omnicificer/Batman, so they aren't busted." It is WRONG.

Unlimited wealth is generally not used as a baseline for the construction of CO builds. This is because with enough money, the power inherent in any character becomes insignificant. So yes, your suggestions are RAW, but they are also non-applicable to this character build.
That being said...do you have a more practical suggestion for our yet-to-be-made commoner?

[DragonOfUndeath]

Chicken-Infested is a must for ALL Optimized Commoners. You can break the game with a Flaw.

[CycloneJoker]

Unlimited wealth is generally not used as a baseline for the construction of CO builds. This is because with enough money, the power inherent in any character becomes insignificant. So yes, your suggestions are RAW, but they are also non-applicable to this character build.
That being said...do you have a more practical suggestion for our yet-to-be-made commoner?

Chicken-Infested. You can Fly, have a Railgun, both through displacement, and you can get some of the useful magic items by making a bet with a hugely-powerful LE wizard. You could even use them as an infinite Liquid Pain/Worship source, if worship is needed for anything, or use them as a sacrifice. I can't think of a problem it can't solve, nor a goal it cannot achieve.

[Tvtyrant]

I couldn't find rules for binding another person with a rope, which could be taken to indicate you don't need special circumstances to try to tie them up with a rope. So max Use Rope, put 5 in Escape Artist, use a silk rope, take the deft hands feat, and buy items that boost your Use Rope skill. Then simply bind your enemies. At level 5 without magic items you can get it to +14, which needs an escape artist check of at least 24. With magic items it would be higher.

[Draculmaulkee]

I couldn't find rules for binding another person with a rope, which could be taken to indicate you don't need special circumstances to try to tie them up with a rope. So max Use Rope, put 5 in Escape Artist, use a silk rope, take the deft hands feat, and buy items that boost your Use Rope skill. Then simply bind your enemies. At level 5 without magic items you can get it to +14, which needs an escape artist check of at least 24. With magic items it would be higher.

You're right, I looked the SRD and there's no mention of what state an opponent needs to be in to bind them. Binding a foe takes 1 minute though, which means that even if it is within the rules to tie up a mvoing foe it wouldn't practical except in 1 vs 1 encounters. Good find though!

[Vladislav]

Expanding on the above's answer: EDIT: Cyclone Joker's answer (NINJAS!)
Pay lvl12 Wizard for a Wall of Salt spell.
Sell Salt
Buy a Ring of At-Will Wall of Salt
Sell Salt
Buy any magic item you want

It was already attempted. The Gods themselves ripped this ring from the insolent commoner's finger and threw it in the ocean.

That's why the ocean is salty.