Deck of Many Things Question!

[funkypsiko]

Hello, (Sorry for repeating myself. Posted on the incorrect forum.)

I'm a DM in search of some clarification. I foolishly introduced the Deck of Many Things into by 3.5 campaign. The Dread Necromancer pulled the Balance Card. Now the rules are pretty vague around this card. It states:

"The character must change to a radically different alignment. If the character fails to act according to the new alignment, she gains a negative level."

Now what does 'radically different' really mean? He's Neutral Evil. Is it:

1) It's reverts to the opposite on the alignment grid. Which pretty much he's screwed as it would be Neutral Good.
2) It changes both parts of the alignment to something else. So LG, LN, CG or CN. So he would be okay to choose Chaotic Neutral.

Your opnions please!

Cheers

Bobby

[senrath]

The way it's defined (i.e., it isn't), it's up to the DM to decide. Personally, I'd say as long as his alignment isn't Neutral on the Law/Chaos axis and isn't Evil on the Good/Evil axis than that's "radically different" enough.

Edit: Although I'd guess that the intent was to invert the alignment or just change it in the case of TN (e.g., CE -> LG, CN -> LN, etc.).

[LansXero]

Neutral good would seem the most radically opposite; the intent of the card is for your behaviour to change deeply (thats why it puts a negative level gun to your character's head); so its meant to screw you.

[rayne_dragon]

It seems to me that opposite alignment was intended, but was changed to radically different so that true neutral characters were affected too. Basically you want to give them the alignment most inappropriate to the character, unless for some reason you're feeling particularly benevolent and have a good reason to be nice to the player in question.

Now would be a good time to suggest they give you some sort of bribe.

[funkypsiko]

Thanks for the comments. It's looking like he's screwed then.

[Dust]

Turn that frown upside down, Funky. It's like I said in the other thread; He pulled from the Deck. He knew he was risking utter obliteration in exchange for power when he did so.

Look at things from an RP perspective. This is a fantasy story where an evil necromancer undertook a mad gambit for power, knowing he might gain enormous wealth, knowledge, Wishes, etc....OR he might lose his soul, be destroyed by the aspect of Death itself.....
Instead of either, he is forced into a very different life - one of good, where his old powers no longer function.
If this means the character gets retired, so be it. If not, maybe some interesting evolution will come of it.

Don't pull your punches. Remember, he knew what he was getting into.

[Thurbane]

I always just assumed it was the same in 3E as earlier editions: alignment becomes direct opposite: true neutral becomes LG, CG, LE or CE.

And yeah, wrecking characters (and campaigns) is what The Deck excels at. I would strongly recommend it never be used except in a one shot, or in a "less than serious" campaign...

[LordBlades]

The deck of many things is just bad news for most campaign , at least in it's base form. The good cards are too good, the bad cards are too bad.

In my group we do use The Deck occasionally on one-shots, and it's pretty good insight into what it can do to a campaign.

My last experience with the deck: we're having a 'survivor'-like game (lvl.12, I'm playing dragonborn gray elf wizard/incantatrix) and one of the prizes we gained for completing a challenge was a Deck of Many Things. I draw 2 cards: sun(+50k XP) and Star (+2 to a stat). So now my wizard is level 15 and throwing around 7th level spells, while the rest are still 12. Would have been very frustrating in a long-term campaign.

[Typewriter]

Every single campaign I've ran, that's gone on for longer than 3 months, has had the deck pop up at some point. 90% of the time I wait until the campaign is over and do it as a last hurrah for the characters because using it mid-campaign is usually a death sentance for the campaign. Of the 5 or so times I've used it mid-campaign the group has decided to pretend it didn't happen 3 of those times. Still fun, just a bit too...random...

[Tyndmyr]

Neutral good would seem the most radically opposite; the intent of the card is for your behaviour to change deeply (thats why it puts a negative level gun to your character's head); so its meant to screw you.

This is the interpretation of it I've always used.

Last time it was introduced into a campaign, it was an evil party, who hung out in a den of thieves. Since, IC, they had no idea what the cards did....they offered cards to their thief buddies to figure it out. All these people happened to be lawful evil.

The first three people ALL drew that card, became chaotic good, and went off to change their life, make restitution for their wrongs, and/or try to make the guild into a reputable organization and stop stealing. Everyone in the guild was horrified by this horrible "artifact of goodness". Chaos ensued.

[some guy]

This is the interpretation of it I've always used.

Last time it was introduced into a campaign, it was an evil party, who hung out in a den of thieves. Since, IC, they had no idea what the cards did....they offered cards to their thief buddies to figure it out. All these people happened to be lawful evil.

The first three people ALL drew that card, became chaotic good, and went off to change their life, make restitution for their wrongs, and/or try to make the guild into a reputable organization and stop stealing. Everyone in the guild was horrified by this horrible "artifact of goodness". Chaos ensued.

That's hilarious!

Anyway, Penny Arcade link.

[Grollub]

The deck isn't all bad.. I once saw a guy in a game draw 22 cards consecutively ( we thought him insane for doin this )( we had a replica RL deck set up ), and his character was playable after.

I think he drew like 8 bad cards total, none of the "time to re-roll" ones tho.

[LordBlades]

The deck isn't all bad.. I once saw a guy in a game draw 22 cards consecutively ( we thought him insane for doin this )( we had a replica RL deck set up ), and his character was playable after.

I think he drew like 8 bad cards total, none of the "time to re-roll" ones tho.

It's rather about what CAN happen.

Think of it like this:
Player A draws 3 cards and gets: +50000 XP, +2 to one Stat and 1d4 wishes (can amount to up to 100k GP worth of gear)
Player B draws 3 cards and gets: -10000 XP, loss of all magic items and -1 to all saves

Would you think it would still be ok to have these 2 chars in the same party?

[Tyndmyr]

It's an amusing and fun thing to happen across right away, when it's not level appropriate. Yknow, like the first session. Because then, if a character ends up hosed, you can reroll without seriously damaging the campaign or the like.

And out of a decently sized party, someone WILL end up getting hosed.

[Thefurmonger]

The deck of many things is just bad news for most campaign , at least in it's base form. The good cards are too good, the bad cards are too bad.

+1, This. Just this.

[Chen]

It's an amusing and fun thing to happen across right away, when it's not level appropriate. Yknow, like the first session. Because then, if a character ends up hosed, you can reroll without seriously damaging the campaign or the like.

And out of a decently sized party, someone WILL end up getting hosed.

Thing is at low level (like 1) some of the good cards can just as easily make the character unplayable. 50k xp? No way that character is staying with this party. 1d4 wishes? Well if used for items the character is going to be way overpowered as well.

[Tyndmyr]

Thing is at low level (like 1) some of the good cards can just as easily make the character unplayable. 50k xp? No way that character is staying with this party. 1d4 wishes? Well if used for items the character is going to be way overpowered as well.

Be aware that 50k XP merely makes him level 2, and one xp short of hitting level 3. That's not usually a problem, especially since it's self-correcting.

1 wish ain't too bad. One great weapon is manageable. 4 might be slightly problematic, but fortunately, my players are rarely that lucky and additionally tend to be somewhat team focused. So, at least some of the wishes would be used for things that boosted others as well.

[FelixG]

One fun thing to do: Use a mind altering power and tell an NPC to draw every card ~.^

[LordBlades]

One fun thing to do: Use a mind altering power and tell an NPC to draw every card ~.^

One idea that just occurred to me about optimizing the Deck of Many Things:

Be a Thrallherd.
Get a Deck.
Have thrall draw a number of cards.
If the result is not satisfactory, have thrall killed.
Get a new thall.
Rinse and repeat.

[Chen]

One idea that just occurred to me about optimizing the Deck of Many Things:

Be a Thrallherd.
Get a Deck.
Have thrall draw a number of cards.
If the result is not satisfactory, have thrall killed.
Get a new thall.
Rinse and repeat.

Until the a Thrall draws the "avoid any situation" card and takes off with the Deck :P

[Tyndmyr]

Yknow, Im gonna have to take leadership at some point just to use it on this.

[navar100]

I'm not really familiar with Dread Necromancer, but there might be a way to let the player continue the character and his Dread Necromancer abilities, probably with some tweaking. Since he no longer works with undead, have him work with deathless! Evil likes to gain power by corrupting Good. Good fights back by corrupting Evil, in this case redeeming undead into deathless.

[Thurbane]

...or work a Helm of Opposite Alignment into the Adventure.