D&D Character Optimization for Support: HELP!!

[TheEditor]

OK CO people... I need some help. In my current campaign I am playing in, we have the following:

- A min/max barbarian with a focus on ranged fighting played by a very savvy player
- An idiotic wizard who is going evil and likes to accidentally kill the party unless someone tells him what to do
- The verse's most unlucky paladin (seriously, this guy gets screwed left and right - usually by the wizard)
- A fairly decent neutral clearic
- A retarded over-bearing fighter who dreams of becoming a vassel of bahamut though his every action is either chaotic evil or chaotic stupid.
- A mithril warforged monk with soggy driftwood for a brain (seriously - it took three sessions to convince him not to make his character intentionally blind for no ^&)*#$ reason)
- Me, a non min/maxed druid because when I min/max I solo campaigns with redonkulous (ch)ease and druids are the worst.

It's a kingdom builder campaign. I'm sick of carrying everyone. It's set in an arpegio of countless islands and will likely involve lots of ships and eventual wars.

House Rules in play:

Start at 10th level
First 10 levels can't include PrCs
No Psionics
All books are fair game

WHAT I NEED:

I need a CO Character with a focus on SUPPORT. Something likely magical and something that can give the most support possible. I'll be coming in at 11th level, so I can have 1 level of PrC.

Classes are fair game, races are open as long as its not TOO exotic.

HELP.

I've never min/maxed a supporter before and have no clue where to start. I was thinking of something involving War Weaver PrC.

I am looking mostly to support the paladin, clearic, and wizard (the barbarian doesn't need it, the warforged is an idiot, and the fighter can go die in a well).

We're using mostly 3.5 with some 3.0 mixed in in places.

[Talbot]

OK CO people... I need some help. In my current campaign I am playing in, we have the following:

- A min/max barbarian with a focus on ranged fighting played by a very savvy player
- An idiotic wizard who is going evil and likes to accidentally kill the party unless someone tells him what to do
- The verse's most unlucky paladin (seriously, this guy gets screwed left and right - usually by the wizard)
- A fairly decent neutral clearic
- A retarded over-bearing fighter who dreams of becoming a vassel of bahamut though his every action is either chaotic evil or chaotic stupid.
- A mithril warforged monk with soggy driftwood for a brain (seriously - it took three sessions to convince him not to make his character intentionally blind for no ^&)*#$ reason)
- Me, a non min/maxed druid because when I min/max I solo campaigns with redonkulous (ch)ease and druids are the worst.

It's a kingdom builder campaign. I'm sick of carrying everyone. It's set in an arpegio of countless islands and will likely involve lots of ships and eventual wars.

House Rules in play:

Start at 10th level
First 10 levels can't include PrCs
No Psionics
All books are fair game

WHAT I NEED:

I need a CO Character with a focus on SUPPORT. Something likely magical and something that can give the most support possible. I'll be coming in at 11th level, so I can have 1 level of PrC.

Classes are fair game, races are open as long as its not TOO exotic.

HELP.

I've never min/maxed a supporter before and have no clue where to start. I was thinking of something involving War Weaver PrC.

I am looking mostly to support the paladin, clearic, and wizard (the barbarian doesn't need it, the warforged is an idiot, and the fighter can go die in a well).

We're using mostly 3.5 with some 3.0 mixed in in places.

Bardsader with a 1-level dip in Marshall and Song of the White Raven makes you a solid support guy while still letting you do stuff in combat.

Edit: Try this:

Bard 1/Crusader 9/Marshal 1, with Song of the White Raven and taking only Devoted Spirit and White Raven maneuvers (which tend to have a lot of healing/support abilities). Cha should be your highest stat, probably. If your DM goes for Unearthed Arcana's unarmored AC rules, toss in a level of Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium) for Cha to AC which, combined with the hefty AC bonus from Crusader's armor proficiency, will let you safely dump Dex as well as Wis (since Crusader adds your Cha to Will anyways). You'll get whacked a little but by damage spells that target your reflex save, but you have high hit die and Con, and loads of self-healing from Crusader, so who cares? For added fun, depending on what weapon you're using, snag Snowflake Wardance to add your Cha to attacks rolls.

Edit 2: If you're worried about dumping Dex, just make your Marshall aura "Motivate Dexterity", so you and your whole party can add your Cha to Initiative. That'll really help out the Cleric and Wizard, as will White Raen Tactics. If you do end up taking Battle Dancer, consider taking an extra level of Marshall for another Aura as it won't hurt your Initiator Level in the long run. Since you don't need armor, focus your loot (and some of your feats) on buffing up your Cha and your Bardic Music.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Bardblade with Song of the White Raven so Bard and Warblade levels stack. Go with Dragonborn for free Dragontouched and head directly to DFI, do not pass go, but do collect +14d6 Sonic damage on every party member's attacks. You've got a couple of people devoted to mass numbers of attacks (the monk, for example).

Failing that, you can use my version of the *OTHER* Clericzilla. No, not the one who cheeses Persist, I've got a different tactic...

DMM Chain Spell + Buff of Choice + Reach Spell (if necessary) = party buffing and healing out the *BLEEEEEP*.

Gets better.

Spontaneous Cloistered Cleric. You get all your domain spells as 'known' automatically.

You're at level 10 and can't go into a PrC until 11. Fine. At level 11, go into Sovereign Speaker. It's a really fun PrC that gives you a free bonus domain at every level (although 8/10 casting stings a bit). So your spells known list? Enormous. Phenomenal. And you can still pick up the Magic domain for Anyspell.

So, let's recap:

DMM Chain Spell Greater Magic Weapon. DMM Chain Spell Reach Spell Magic Vestments. DMM Chain Spell Greater Resistance.

With a Bead of Karma, your party now has:

+4 enhancement bonus to all weapons and armor, goes up to +5 when you hit CL 12.

+6 Resistance bonus to all saves.

This means:

All party members only need a +1 gear of a bunch of enhancement equivelants

No need for vests/cloaks of resistance

Then you can situationally use DMM Chain plus:

Barkskin (Plant domain) for a similar bonus to Natural AC (a tough one to raise, and explicitly increases whatever natural armor bonus you already have, so it stacks with Polycheese)

Shield of Faith. That's your Deflection bonus to AC. So no one needs a Ring of Protection, or similar deflection bonuses.

Death Ward. No more needing to worry about negative levels, death effects, or any of that nonsense.

Freedom of Movement. Save needing a 40k ring for the whole party

Energy Resistance. For when you have to deal with Blastomancy or Dragons.

Protection from Evil. Not for the deflection bonus, but for the repression of mind-affecting abilities. It works until you get Mind Blank from either Protection or Mind domains to just flat out be immune.

Heal. Because if the party DOES get hit by nasty AE? You just completely negated that.

Then dare your GM to throw it at you, because you can generally make the party immune to it.

[Chilingsworth]

What kind of support are you looking to give?

Healing?

Buffing Attacks/Damage?

Other Buffs (Freedom of Movement, for instance)

Debuffing the Enemy so the party takes them down more easily?

Restraining the ***hat's so they can't mess the party up as easily?

Or, Something Else Entirely? (If so, please state what.)

What you want to do will of course affect what builds would be good for you.

EDIT:

Spoiler

Show

Bardblade with Song of the White Raven so Bard and Warblade levels stack. Go with Dragonborn for free Dragontouched and head directly to DFI, do not pass go, but do collect +14d6 Sonic damage on every party member's attacks. You've got a couple of people devoted to mass numbers of attacks (the monk, for example).

Failing that, you can use my version of the *OTHER* Clericzilla. No, not the one who cheeses Persist, I've got a different tactic...

DMM Chain Spell + Buff of Choice + Reach Spell (if necessary) = party buffing and healing out the *BLEEEEEP*.

Gets better.

Spontaneous Cloistered Cleric. You get all your domain spells as 'known' automatically.

You're at level 10 and can't go into a PrC until 11. Fine. At level 11, go into Sovereign Speaker. It's a really fun PrC that gives you a free bonus domain at every level (although 8/10 casting stings a bit). So your spells known list? Enormous. Phenomenal. And you can still pick up the Magic domain for Anyspell.

So, let's recap:

DMM Chain Spell Greater Magic Weapon. DMM Chain Spell Reach Spell Magic Vestments. DMM Chain Spell Greater Resistance.

With a Bead of Karma, your party now has:

+4 enhancement bonus to all weapons and armor, goes up to +5 when you hit CL 12.

+6 Resistance bonus to all saves.

This means:

All party members only need a +1 gear of a bunch of enhancement equivelants

No need for vests/cloaks of resistance

Then you can situationally use DMM Chain plus:

Barkskin (Plant domain) for a similar bonus to Natural AC (a tough one to raise, and explicitly increases whatever natural armor bonus you already have, so it stacks with Polycheese)

Shield of Faith. That's your Deflection bonus to AC. So no one needs a Ring of Protection, or similar deflection bonuses.

Death Ward. No more needing to worry about negative levels, death effects, or any of that nonsense.

Freedom of Movement. Save needing a 40k ring for the whole party

Energy Resistance. For when you have to deal with Blastomancy or Dragons.

Protection from Evil. Not for the deflection bonus, but for the repression of mind-affecting abilities. It works until you get Mind Blank from either Protection or Mind domains to just flat out be immune.

Heal. Because if the party DOES get hit by nasty AE? You just completely negated that.

Then dare your GM to throw it at you, because you can generally make the party immune to it.

OK... If you can get your DM to approve this, and get him to let it work as fully intended... Yeah, that'll do the job, probably no matter what.

All I can suggest to add to it is maybe the Leadership feat to get a Bard with the following:

Song of the Heart (feat from Ebberon Campagin Setting, +1 to numerical Bardic Music Effects)

Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium, adds an additional +1 to Inspire Courage.)

And some other Bard feats: Lyric Spell Allows you to use Bardic Music uses to cast spells instead of your spell slots, (Complete Adventurer)

Melodic Casting: Let's you Cast spells, read scrolls, use spell trigger and comand word items while performing bardic music. Also lets you replace concentration checks with perform checks for most important uses. (Complete Mage.)

Get a cohort with those feats, you'll have prettymuch EVERYTHING covered, much of it twice.

[arguskos]

Surprised no one's broken out the War Weaver/Spellguard of Silverymoon combo yet. *casts summon Keld Denar*

[Chilingsworth]

Surprised no one's broken out the War Weaver/Spellguard of Silverymoon combo yet. *casts summon Keld Denar*

Probably because the OP has to take 10 levels of non-PrC classes?
Also, maybe his campagin isn't in the Forgotten Realms?

[Keld Denar]

*spawns* New troll here!

Funny thing though, chief, you ask for a War Weaver build, but you can't have PrCs...I'm confuzzled.

I could get the full Spellguard/Weaver combo up and running by 10th level (takes some shanananananananananananananigans), but unfortunately, I can't do it with your no-PrC rules involved, and by the time you get the full Weaver/Spellguard effect in play, most of the tricks will be rather disappointing.

Thus, I'd suggest going either Bardsader as suggested above, or full Bard. Full Bard gets you fun things like Haste to stack on top of your pimped out IC, but Bardsader gives you more offensive and defensive options.

So...yea...answers...we needz them!

[arguskos]

Probably because the OP has to take 10 levels of non-PrC classes?
Also, maybe his campagin isn't in the Forgotten Realms?

Meh, you can probably do it in less levels. Also, fluff is fluff, and can be altered. Nothing I've seen suggests elsewise. I figured, he wants the ultimate buffer, so it's there if he wants it. 'sall I'm saying.

[TheEditor]

*spawns* New troll here!

Funny thing though, chief, you ask for a War Weaver build, but you can't have PrCs...I'm confuzzled.

...

So...yea...answers...we needz them!

No PrCs before level 11. Your first 10 levels have to be non-PrC. You can use PrC after level 10 so lv 11 (the level the new character will be coming in at) can have 10 levels in non-PrC classes (multi-classing is fine) and 1 level PrC.

What kind of support are you looking to give?

Healing?

Buffing Attacks/Damage?

Other Buffs (Freedom of Movement, for instance)

Debuffing the Enemy so the party takes them down more easily?

Restraining the ***hat's so they can't mess the party up as easily?

Or, Something Else Entirely? (If so, please state what.)

What you want to do will of course affect what builds would be good for you.

Our Clearic can heal, but it isn't his focus.
Level/ability drain and negative energy seems a constant problem with this group.
I was looking into buffing the party and debuffing the enemy with maybe minor healing on the side.
HOWEVER, Restraining the ***hats is also a major perk of sorts (but usually they screw up and drop fast so keeping them alive but unconscious is useful...)
If I could buff our Barbarian and our Clearic and keep our Paladin in the fight and keep our wizard focused on what he should be casting (instead of attacking the construct with fireball while 4 people lie bleeding out at his feet, all around -6hp) then I think it'd shore up our shortcommings with this group.

I liked the generic Spellcaster from Unearthed Arcana with a War Weaver from 11-15, but I haven't seen any real tricked out bard support builds either.

The problem with debuffing the enemy in this campaign is the DM will just start throwing weird crap that the debuffs won't work/matter.

The problem with buffing the party is the DM will start throwing stronger crap.

The things we KNOW are major plot enemies right now are:
- a necromancer ex-druid possibly blighter
- A red dragon
- A colossal green dragon
- Pirates
- Sea Elves
-Cthulhu ... ok, maybe not Cthulhu since it's D&D and homebrew setting or not Cthulhu doesn't exist that we know of in this world, but knowing this DM I find it good to always plan for Cthulhu...

[Keld Denar]

Honestly, I'd skip War Weaver. To get the really good shanananananananananananananananigans, it'll be too little/too late.

Go with this:

Bard10/SublimeChord10 alternatively something like Bard10/SubChrd3/Iot7V7

There are slightly more efficient ways to do it, but not with your restrictions.

Feats:
1 Melodic Casting (CMage - don't stop believing singing
3 Songs of the Heart (ECS - boost to IC and other songs)
6 Lyric Spell (CAdv - turn songs into spell slots)
9 Rapid Metamagic
12 Quicken Spell
15 Feat
18 Feat

You have a bunch of spells, and bards get some good ones. Use Sublime Chord to poach things, like Greater Dispel Magic as a 5th level spell off the bard list. Get a Lesser MM Rod of Chain Spell, and you can pass out some decent buffs. Get a Badge of Valor (MIC) and some other stuff to boost your IC.

You'll have GREAT Inspire Courage, which will be +3 base (including a Vest of Legends), +1 for Insp Boost, +1 for Songs of the Heart, and +1 for Badge of Valor, means you have a +6/+6 Inspire Courage. Thats a HUGE boost to hit and damage, effectively increasing every melee character in your party by about 3-4 levels of effectiveness. You have AoE buffs like Haste, and can even chain a Greater Magic Weapon with the rod if needed.

You can get a bit sillier with Words of Creation (BoED), which will bump you up to +9-12 Inspire Courage (depending on where you multiply), but it imposes RPing restrictions on you given that it's [Exalted]. Its also a tad bit much, and might make your DM hate you. If you go with Silverbrow Human or Glimmerskin Strongheart Halfling, you could also pick up the Dragonfire Inspiration feat (Dragon Magic), which, when used, converts your +x/+x Inspire Courage into +xd6 fire damage. 6-12d6 extra fire damage PER HIT is very significant, and will probably make the party blaster cry when you vicariously out damage him every fight. Oh well...

[TheEditor]

Honestly, I'd skip War Weaver. To get the really good shanananananananananananananananigans, it'll be too little/too late.

Go with this:

Bard10/SublimeChord10 alternatively something like Bard10/SubChrd3/Iot7V7

There are slightly more efficient ways to do it, but not with your restrictions.

Feats:
1 Melodic Casting (CMage - don't stop believing singing
3 Songs of the Heart (ECS - boost to IC and other songs)
6 Lyric Spell (CAdv - turn songs into spell slots)
9 Rapid Metamagic
12 Quicken Spell
15 Feat
18 Feat

You have a bunch of spells, and bards get some good ones. Use Sublime Chord to poach things, like Greater Dispel Magic as a 5th level spell off the bard list. Get a Lesser MM Rod of Chain Spell, and you can pass out some decent buffs. Get a Badge of Valor (MIC) and some other stuff to boost your IC.

You'll have GREAT Inspire Courage, which will be +3 base (including a Vest of Legends), +1 for Insp Boost, +1 for Songs of the Heart, and +1 for Badge of Valor, means you have a +6/+6 Inspire Courage. Thats a HUGE boost to hit and damage, effectively increasing every melee character in your party by about 3-4 levels of effectiveness. You have AoE buffs like Haste, and can even chain a Greater Magic Weapon with the rod if needed.

You can get a bit sillier with Words of Creation (BoED), which will bump you up to +9-12 Inspire Courage (depending on where you multiply), but it imposes RPing restrictions on you given that it's [Exalted]. Its also a tad bit much, and might make your DM hate you. If you go with Silverbrow Human or Glimmerskin Strongheart Halfling, you could also pick up the Dragonfire Inspiration feat (Dragon Magic), which, when used, converts your +x/+x Inspire Courage into +xd6 fire damage. 6-12d6 extra fire damage PER HIT is very significant, and will probably make the party blaster cry when you vicariously out damage him every fight. Oh well...

I really like these bard builds. Buffing and hasting the melee users would go a LONG way to helping them out.
That Words of Creation trick is kinda sick - but I think I could swing it.

ALso, I should mention, the DM is SERIOUSLY considering going hard into Stormwrack and putting a major focus on the aquatic/ship/sea battle aspects.

[Keld Denar]

Well, you could pick up Fireball as one of your 4th level spells known as a Sublime Chord. Not the best tactic, but in a heavy marine environment, the SUPER long range of Fireball combined with the fact that it sets things like sails on fire is pretty awesome. Since Sublime Chord also gives you wizard spells, you can get some gems like Submerge Ship, another fun naval spell.

Also, Inspire Courage + 2 dozen sailors with bows = dead enemies. The accuracy boost is huge, and the damage boost is about a doubling or more of total damage. Considering most sailors are 1-2 HD experts or warriors, 1d6+6 damage has a good chance of 1-shotting them. Always useful. If you go with the Dragonfire Inspiration option, those 1d6 shortbows become 7d6 short bows, a 600% increase in damage!

[TheEditor]

Well, you could pick up Fireball as one of your 4th level spells known as a Sublime Chord. Not the best tactic, but in a heavy marine environment, the SUPER long range of Fireball combined with the fact that it sets things like sails on fire is pretty awesome. Since Sublime Chord also gives you wizard spells, you can get some gems like Submerge Ship, another fun naval spell.

Also, Inspire Courage + 2 dozen sailors with bows = dead enemies. The accuracy boost is huge, and the damage boost is about a doubling or more of total damage. Considering most sailors are 1-2 HD experts or warriors, 1d6+6 damage has a good chance of 1-shotting them. Always useful. If you go with the Dragonfire Inspiration option, those 1d6 shortbows become 7d6 short bows, a 600% increase in damage!

Nice. Any particular race you'd recommend as being ideal for this?

[Greenish]

Nice. Any particular race you'd recommend as being ideal for this?

Silverbrow human, probably. Dragonblooded + extra feat is hard to beat.

[Keld Denar]

If you want to be small, Glimmerskin Strongheart Halfling is a great choice as well. Halflings get a +3 to hit bonus with a sling compared to their human kin, which can be fun.


If you don't want Dragonfire Inspiration, you don't have to bother with a dragonblooded race like Silverbrow Human or Glimmerskin Halfling, so you could pick any race. Normal human is still pretty good, as is Lesser Assimar (PGtF) or Star Elf for the Cha bonus.