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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Trying to come up with a secondary BBEG, should my main one for my campaign fall. I was thinking, what about a sentient golem? A Flesh Golem maybe, with levels in Scout and Rogue or something (Want them to be like a stalking type of enemy, climbing around in the air ducts and whatnot).

    So, anyway, how would I go about doing this? Is there a template or something that I could use, or would I just Rule 0 it?

    Here's a pic of what I'm kinda going for (Warning, kinda spooky)

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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    hmm... depends on the flavor you want. easiest would be an incarnate construct warforged, but that's not a construct anymore, that's a humanoid. So, yes, Flesh Golem seems to be the thing to do
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    I suppose what I'm going for is something/one that is just totally flippin' out of their mind. Like....The Joker, but less coherent I suppose. Climbing through the rafters, picking off people, tearing them apart, turning them into disturbing "art objects".

    So I suppose....

    (Xenomorph (Aliens) + The Joker + Sander Cohen) all wrapped up in a stitched together little bundle. With Blindsense/sight.
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    The Cadaver Golem from Heroes of Horror is an intelligent, body-part snatching monster that gains the abilities related to the body parts it grabs.


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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Graft a flesh golem arm on someone?
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Ooh, that could work...

    If it has an Int score, it can take Class levels right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Graft a flesh golem arm on someone?
    I had considered that, but Half-Flesh Golems can't run D=
    Last edited by Silus; 2011-02-09 at 07:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Also, while Blasphemies are technically undead, they are very Frankenstein's Monster-esque. Source is Libris Mortis (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silus View Post
    Ooh, that could work...

    If it has an Int score, it can take Class levels right?
    Yep.
    Last edited by LOTRfan; 2011-02-09 at 07:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silus View Post
    Ooh, that could work...

    If it has an Int score, it can take Class levels right?
    Yep - although NPC's are a bit looser than PC's, in that they just need a CR, not an ECL.

    However, golems are created in the same way magic items are, and there are rules for Intelligent Magic Items.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Now you have me thinking about shaping a living tree into the form of a giant human and casting Awaken on it...
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    Yep - although NPC's are a bit looser than PC's, in that they just need a CR, not an ECL.

    However, golems are created in the same way magic items are, and there are rules for Intelligent Magic Items.
    I'm a little hazy on the whole Rule 0 thing: If I make a NPC from a monster (Cadaver Golem in this case), I can mess with the ability scores to my heart's content, right? Within reason of course.

    I've never been really clear on the limits of a DM.
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    I guess technically you can. Usually, however, I find its base ability modifiers and add them to the elite array. That's just me, though.
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silus View Post
    I'm a little hazy on the whole Rule 0 thing: If I make a NPC from a monster (Cadaver Golem in this case), I can mess with the ability scores to my heart's content, right? Within reason of course.

    I've never been really clear on the limits of a DM.
    The baseline ability scores of every monster are 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10 (you can derive the racial ability bonuses based on these values, even if the monster entry doesn't list them.)

    Monsters with class levels are usually assumed to have the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8), plus their racial bonuses. Giving a monster an elite array without class levels usually have a CR +1.

    I usually a high point buy when constructing villains (BBEGs). Boss monsters and more generic mooks don't get the same treatment.


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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silus View Post
    I'm a little hazy on the whole Rule 0 thing: If I make a NPC from a monster (Cadaver Golem in this case), I can mess with the ability scores to my heart's content, right? Within reason of course.

    I've never been really clear on the limits of a DM.
    You'll likely want to read through the Improving Monsters section, then.

    Your base Flesh Golem is CR-7. The intelligent item creation rules don't list a CR change, but between the feats, skills, and special power(s), I'd personally be inclined to eyeball it at around +1 (Lesser powers only) or +2 (Greater Powers), or +3 (Dedicated powers).

    When you add class levels, you automatically add the elite array, as well (15/14/13/12/10/8), as well as NPC wealth. Your construct doesn't have a Con score, so put the 8 there.

    When you're adding non-associated class levels (class levels that don't particularly play to the critter's strengths), then it's +1 CR for every 2 class levels, to a max of the critter's racial hit dice (after which, it's +1 CR per level). Associated class levels (class levels that do play to the critter's strengths) are +1 CR each from the get-go.

    So a minimally intelligent Flesh Golem with 8 levels in Rogue (non-associated) would probable be around CR 12, if I'm guesstimating right....
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silus View Post
    So, anyway, how would I go about doing this? Is there a template or something that I could use, or would I just Rule 0 it?
    There's the incarnate construct spell in Savage Species, which grants the incarnate construct template and changes the type to either humanoid or giant. However, the creature also loses all its Special Attacks/Qualities, which is a pretty substantial nerf for golems. You're actually much better off taking some other creature and applying the Half-Flesh-Golem template (MM2/3.5Upd). This reduces Int, but doesn't eliminate it completely.

    Another method would be to add the Pseudonatural template (Complete Arcane or Lords of Madness), which grants a minimum Int of 3 and changes your type to Outsider. From there, you can add Half-Dragon (Int +2), then Spellwarped (Int +4) and/or Phrenic (Int +2).

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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Isn't there an Awaken Construct spell in Spell Compendium? If not just slap the normal Awaken spell on a flesh golem. Quick and simple.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Note that Golems are technically items and creatures at the same time (they are created via the magic item creation rules). The creation of intelligent magic items is possible. Just use the rules given in the section of the DMG, and your intelligent golem will even have a few spell-likes to surprise the party with

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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    I believe there's a spell for awakening constructs, a template from Dragonlance's Bestiary of Krynn that gives sapience and dedicates a construct to a specified Domain of a particular Deity, and I think a feat from Dragon Magazine that builds up an intelligence based upon the creator's CL. Rudimentary Intelligence or something.

    Yup. Rudimentary Intelligence from Dragon #327 gives the GolemConstruct half its creator's CL in intelligence.
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Yoiks, with all the ways to advance CL, you could make a golem smarter then you are!
    An idea that might be funny is to have an golem who has an intelligence, but its separate from the main body, not actually directly controlling it, the main body being animal level at best, and a bit ornery to boot, certainly stubborn and argumentative. "No, no, turn left, left I tell you, you dumb lump of clay/flesh/ iron/ paper/ brains/ incarnum/ what have you!"
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    An idea that might be funny is to have an golem who has an intelligence, but its separate from the main body, not actually directly controlling it, the main body being animal level at best, and a bit ornery to boot, certainly stubborn and argumentative. "No, no, turn left, left I tell you, you dumb lump of clay/flesh/ iron/ paper/ brains/ incarnum/ what have you!"
    I thought of these when you mentioned this. Could be good inspiration.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    All I can think of from that scenario is handle animal for fun and profit.
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    There's also the Awaken Construct and Incarnate Construct spells in the SS. Incarnate Construct also has a (over LA'd) template to go with it. I forget what pages those are on, though.
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Just use Warforged and describe it as your picture.

    The key for its creepiness: It really really wants to be alive, so it took its victims skins and mended them together as a suit.
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by FelixG View Post
    The key for its creepiness: It really really wants to be alive, so it took its victims skins and mended them together as a suit.
    For extra added creepiness: Name it Pinocchio. (Because it wants to be a real boy.)
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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    You can cast animate object on a corpse.

    Awaken it/Incarnate Construct.

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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by FelixG View Post
    Just use Warforged and describe it as your picture.

    The key for its creepiness: It really really wants to be alive, so it took its victims skins and mended them together as a suit.
    There was actually such a warforged in an Eberron adventure once. It had detached eyeballs hanging from its head like dreadlocks, and a long, lolling decaying tongue pinned to the inside of its mouth.


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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    Magic of Incarnum has the Soulfused Construct template, which grants intelligence and the (living construct) subtype.

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    Default Re: Making a sentient golem (3.5)

    You could just use the Half-Golem template from the Monster Manual 2. It's kinda broken, but still usable.

    After your players defeat said half-golem, send another more powerful one after them.
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