So many times a day, what is a day? [Pathfinder+3.5]

[Marik900]

Ok so with so many times per day what EXACTLY makes a day? For example, if you use a once a day ability and then go to a plane where, say, one day there is a second on the original plane (let's say material), does a day in the second plane allow a second use of the ability on the material plane? And my second question, when researching a true name using the words of creation feat in the Exalted Deeds (1 week per 2 HD of target creature) are the weeks relative to the researcher or the target? For example could I take 4 weeks in a plane where those 4 weeks are equal to 4 minutes in the material plane to do so?

[tyckspoon]

Undefined. It's one of the sloppiest bits of the rules, considering how many things in the game depend on it. As a practical matter, a 'day' should probably be defined as "the period between when we start adventuring and the point where the party decides it is necessary to stop and rest long enough for everybody to get their powers back." Which has basically nothing to do with an actual day cycle and is only attached to days because those rests traditionally happen overnight, but it does help prevent some time-silliness and some really annoying book-keeping (like, if you define a 'day' for purposes of these rules as '24 hours', then you have to keep track of an ever changing dateline for when various abilities recharge based on when you last used them..)

That said, generally, time is counted relative to the person, so if you manage to find or acquire a fast-time zone, then yes, you get a major advantage in getting stuff done relative to whatever you define as 'normal' time.

[Eldan]

For most concerns, "24 hours, subjective to the user of the ability", is probably the best definition.

And be happy you only have to think about planes with faster time. There could be timeless planes involved.

[J.Gellert]

We've always done it "until you rest" as was in D&D CRPGs.

Simple, not as open to abuse, and "elegant" because it ties these powers to how spells are used, if you consider that a wizard's spell slots are practically "1/day" abilities...

Coincidentally, we've never used the bit where clerics have to pray at the same time each day, for similar reasons.

[Eldan]

Well, it does potentially increase the number of spells a wizard or Sorcerer get, though. I mean, Rest 8 hours, prepare one hour, adventure three hours is only 12 hours. You can do that twice per day.

[FelixG]

its subjective to the user in question.

You could spam all your spells, hop to a place where 24 hours passes for every second on the material plane and be back with full spells the next round.

It no where says "24 hours on the prime material." so its just a flat 24 hours as defined by where the person is.

also when researching a true name i dont think it says "1 week per HD on the material plane" so you could go to the mystical place with 24 hours to 1 second and be back in 7 seconds with a 2 HD critters true name.

Though i dont really think there are any planes with that kind of time property baring Arcane Genesis shenanigans.

[J.Gellert]

Well, it does potentially increase the number of spells a wizard or Sorcerer get, though. I mean, Rest 8 hours, prepare one hour, adventure three hours is only 12 hours. You can do that twice per day.

Nothing wrong with that. What's important in game terms is not "how many can you get per day?" but "how many can you get per adventure?" and the adventure is pretty much on hold (or over) once you go to rest.

Besides, it only makes sense that once the caster has refreshed his spells, the non-caster has refreshed his "per day" items/abilities, too.

[BobVosh]

My friend was looking into genesis and said he found that the cap on the speed difference is 24 hours per round, so 24 hours per six seconds.

Gosh, thats 6x longer Felix :P

Anyway our group mainly defines it after every 8 hour rest cycle.

[Eldan]

Nothing wrong with that. What's important in game terms is not "how many can you get per day?" but "how many can you get per adventure?" and the adventure is pretty much on hold (or over) once you go to rest.

Besides, it only makes sense that once the caster has refreshed his spells, the non-caster has refreshed his "per day" items/abilities, too.

I like to run more dynamic adventures, where the character are under time pressure. I usually have a time table, in the style of "Day 3: If players don't do X, Y happens."
So, doubling spells per day would help them quite a bit.

[Morquard]

I like to run more dynamic adventures, where the character are under time pressure. I usually have a time table, in the style of "Day 3: If players don't do X, Y happens."
So, doubling spells per day would help them quite a bit.

Actually I'd say thats the type of adventures where they can't say "We rest for 9 hours" after every fight, because, well, they're on a schedule.
"Yay you finally cleared the hobgoblins of the starting farm by day 7. In the distance you see the city go up in a blaze and a loud boom is heard as the giant dragon makes the volcano on the horizon errupt. Game over. Maybe you should have hurried a bit"

Also nowhere does it say "While the PCs are resting the NPCs fall into a magic sleep". Imagine the group wakes up and finds themself surrounded by 30 enemies.
Or simply "You try to sleep, but since you slept 33 hours in the last 36 hours, you just won't fall asleep. Sorry, no spells for you. Oh, and the BBEG is coming around the corner to see why his pizza delivery is a day late".

[Eldan]

That is one way it could go, yes.

However, if they play careful, they could refresh their spells twice per day and generally clear encounters more easily, since they could just blast everything they meet.

[Tyndmyr]

Also nowhere does it say "While the PCs are resting the NPCs fall into a magic sleep". Imagine the group wakes up and finds themself surrounded by 30 enemies.

This is only a problem if the players are stupid, and do not utilize basic spells like alarm, rope trick, MMM, etc.

Or simply "You try to sleep, but since you slept 33 hours in the last 36 hours, you just won't fall asleep. Sorry, no spells for you. Oh, and the BBEG is coming around the corner to see why his pizza delivery is a day late".

Technically, it's 8 hours of rest, not sleep. Otherwise, elven wizards would be screwed. Let alone warforged wizards. Turning into a lich would make you the worst spellcaster ever.

[Eldan]

You can, however, Rope Trick all you want. Your enemies, noticing that their scouting parties and door guards haven't been around for 8 hours will either retreat and relocate, or improve their defences. They don't just stand around doing nothing.

[Tyndmyr]

Oh, of course. But a party is almost always better off resting once the casters dry anyhow. Sometimes you can eke out another fight if you're still healthy on hp, but in general, it's not worth it, and you want to leave a little omph in reserve in case you get jumped.

And honestly, I only see Rope Trick get used in games where time IS an issue. In games where time is not, people sleep in inns and the like, not in dungeons, and they have downtime to craft scrolls, wands, etc. They don't really need rope trick.

[WarKitty]

Oh this is a fun one. We got trapped in a plane with no time for one adventure. The DM wouldn't let us reset any spells or other per/day abilities until we got out.