Flat-footedness

[CalamaroJoe]

Hi,
sorry if it has been discussed a lot, but the rules for the flat-footed condition continue to bug me.

At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

I think that it's awkward. Even if you were expecting some foes, even if maybe they spent a surprise round attacking you, you still are not trying to react to the attack (losing dex bonus) until your turn.

Am I reading it right?

[Cyrion]

By RAW, yes. Until you act, you are flat-footed. I've never been convinced that's a good idea, but there it is.

[CalamaroJoe]

I've never been convinced that's a good idea, but there it is.

Ok, at least I was intending right the written rules. Maybe my question should have been another:
Do you use the flatfooted-until-you-act rule or you houseruled something different?

[Cyrion]

I've usually ignored it and just leave people flat-footed in a surprise round, though I've been using the rule correctly recently. The rule really helps rogues- they're likely to get two sneak attacks in before opponents get to act, but for most of the rest of the world it comes out as a wash.

[KillianHawkeye]

Even if you were expecting some foes, even if maybe they spent a surprise round attacking you, you still are not trying to react to the attack (losing dex bonus) until your turn.

It's not that you're not trying to react to the enemies' attacks, just that you can't react properly until your turn arrives. Even somebody expecting to find an enemy can't react properly until they know where the attack will be coming from, so it's not like you can maintain a constant state of general combat readiness. The best you can do is to be ready for a combat to start (i.e., have all your stuff together and/or nearby) and do your best to react (by rolling Initiative) when an enemy presents itself.

That's the rationale behind being flat-footed.

[Sims]

2 levels of Rogue fixes the problem. (Uncanny Dodge ftw!)

[Volos]

It's been my understanding that there is only a surprise round when you are unware of the enemy or vice versa. If both sides are aware of eachother and a fight breaks out, usually noone is flat-footed. And if a fight is underway and a third group appears, they act immedately and everyone is flat-footed to any attacks from the newcomers. I believe this is covered somwhere. I can't remember if it is the Combat Chapter of PHB or if it's in one of the DMGs.

[n00b killa]

It's not that you're not trying to react to the enemies' attacks, just that you can't react properly until your turn arrives. Even somebody expecting to find an enemy can't react properly until they know where the attack will be coming from, so it's not like you can maintain a constant state of general combat readiness. The best you can do is to be ready for a combat to start (i.e., have all your stuff together and/or nearby) and do your best to react (by rolling Initiative) when an enemy presents itself.

That's the rationale behind being flat-footed.

+1 to this.

Also, it really helps rogues get some sneak attacks.

On a semi-related note, the other day I came across the word "Flat-feeted" and loled pretty hard at work.

Eheh, flat-feeted

[KillianHawkeye]

It's been my understanding that there is only a surprise round when you are unware of the enemy or vice versa. If both sides are aware of eachother and a fight breaks out, usually noone is flat-footed. And if a fight is underway and a third group appears, they act immedately and everyone is flat-footed to any attacks from the newcomers. I believe this is covered somwhere. I can't remember if it is the Combat Chapter of PHB or if it's in one of the DMGs.

No, even if there's no surprise round, everyone is still flat-footed until the beginning of their first turn. A Rogue with a high initiative roll can still get some Sneak Attacks.

Also, active combatants are not caught flat-footed when a new group enters the fight. See DMG page 24.