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2011-02-11, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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[3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
How does that effect skill-points?
For example, if i had a -2 bonus, and i was a fighter, it would be 2+ -2 * 4
But that also means, each level i get 2+ -2 and never gain skillpoints...
So, does the negative just count as a 0 or a 1?
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2011-02-11, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
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- Sweden
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
You always get at least 1 per level, no matter what.
Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal
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2011-02-11, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- The Land of the Cats
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2011-02-11, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
You always get at least one skill point per level, even if your intelligence score is low enough to otherwise drop the number of your skill points to zero.
PHB states as much, but I can't find the passage on srd at the moment.Adrie, half elven bard. Drawing by Vulion, avatar by CheesePirate. Colored version by Callos_DeTerran. Thanks a lot, you guys.This place is not a place of honor…no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here… nothing valued is here."There will come a day so dark you will pray for death. On that day your prayers will be answered."Book of shadows, book of night, wake the beast and banish light.
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2011-02-11, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- Texas
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
So, if i had a -2 bonus and i was a fighter, i would get 1 skillpoint per level then?
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2011-02-11, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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2011-02-11, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Class that get few skill points are the best ones to do a negative Int mod; you lose the least.
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2011-02-11, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Just to clarify, you can add your own bonuses and penalties in the most beneficial order. Therefore, a Human Fighter with a -2 Int modifier could still get two skill points/level. Apply the -2 penalty first, it cannot reduce your skill points/level below 1, then add your Human bonus afterward and it goes back up to 2.
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2011-02-11, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- The Land of the Cats
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2011-02-11, 05:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Adrie, half elven bard. Drawing by Vulion, avatar by CheesePirate. Colored version by Callos_DeTerran. Thanks a lot, you guys.This place is not a place of honor…no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here… nothing valued is here."There will come a day so dark you will pray for death. On that day your prayers will be answered."Book of shadows, book of night, wake the beast and banish light.
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2011-02-11, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Just for reference, it's here.
Intelligence determines how well your character learns and reasons. This ability is important for wizards because it affects how many spells they can cast, how hard their spells are to resist, and how powerful their spells can be. It’s also important for any character who wants to have a wide assortment of skills.
You apply your character’s Intelligence modifier to:
* The number of languages your character knows at the start of the game.
* The number of skill points gained each level. (But your character always gets at least 1 skill point per level.)
* Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Knowledge, Search, and Spellcraft checks. These are the skills that have Intelligence as their key ability.
A wizard gains bonus spells based on her Intelligence score. The minimum Intelligence score needed to cast a wizard spell is 10 + the spell’s level.
An animal has an Intelligence score of 1 or 2. A creature of humanlike intelligence has a score of at least 3.BEEP.
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2011-02-11, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- Euphonistan
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Really over one skill point per level? I am not going to argue the RAW (I have a feeling if there isn't a clear cut rule on this it will be one of those hellfire warlock/strongheart vest questions) but in terms of balance making a character get his bonus from being human just so that he can get 2 skill points per level does not sound like the sort of abuse to get a DMG to the face.
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2011-02-11, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- Sunnydale
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2011-02-11, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Adrie, half elven bard. Drawing by Vulion, avatar by CheesePirate. Colored version by Callos_DeTerran. Thanks a lot, you guys.This place is not a place of honor…no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here… nothing valued is here."There will come a day so dark you will pray for death. On that day your prayers will be answered."Book of shadows, book of night, wake the beast and banish light.
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2011-02-11, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Maybe he wants to get into a PrC before epic levels?
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2011-02-11, 06:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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2011-02-11, 07:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2011-02-11, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Japan
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Me too.
Oh wait no, apparently I'm cheating.Editor and playtester for Legend.
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2011-02-11, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
What he said. It is a symptom of a likely larger issue which almost assuredly lead to an un-fun game.
No offense, but that seems like a very odd attitude for a DM to have. Just because a player tries to engage in a rules discussion with you means he is trying to abuse the rules and break the game? He is supposed to just sit quietly and accept your final decision, even though it may not be the right one?
That said, here is what sean reynolds has to say on the matter (I know I read this somewhere).
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfile...ons_races.html
The relevant part.
Human Bonus Skill Points
Human bonus skill points should be applied after any Intelligence penalties to skills. It’s more advantageous to the character to do the +1 human point after the Intelligence penalty, because a human character with a big Intelligence penalty would reduce you to 1 skill point (the minimum), and then your human bonus would bring that up to 2.
If you applied the bonus point first, that would penalize the low-Int guys even more than they already are. Applying it first, in effect, negates the advantage that humans get for their bonus skill points. It’s a corner case, but an important point.My humble efforts at re-cr'ing MM2
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215727
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2011-02-11, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2011-02-11, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
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- Mountain View, CA
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Changing from 1 skill point per level to 1 skill point per level is... not exactly "getting 1 extra skill point at each additional level".
Last edited by Douglas; 2011-02-11 at 07:42 PM.
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2011-02-11, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
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- Oregon
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Thats because IIRC you DO apply penalties/bonuses in whichever order suits your purposes. Hence the time honored trick of lowering a stat to 3, having a racial drop it below 3, but because 3 is the minimum for PC's it automatically goes back up to 3 (this is at least, our reading).
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2011-02-11, 08:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
My humble efforts at re-cr'ing MM2
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215727
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2011-02-11, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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- Imagination Land
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Originally Posted by Human Racial Traits
Either way, I don't think it's abusive and necessarily leads to insane powergaming.
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2011-02-11, 09:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2011-02-12, 12:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- Brazil
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
You could argue that all bonus/penalties are added, and then a non-math effect is applied last, in this case, after all is calculated, of you still has zero or less skill points, you get one skill point.
HOWEVER, the human feature says you gain 1 (4 on 1st level) extra skill points as a racial bonus. It doesn't say that it's calculated with inteligence. So, you get class skill points, remove the int's penalty, move it to minimum 1, and THEN applies the human bonus.
Really, the DM and the group just need to agree on what is better, because I don't think that 1 skill point will really matter much, as most meleers' skill list just sucks anyway.
Member of the Hinjo fan club. Go Hinjo!
"In Soviet Russia, the Darkness attacks you."
"Rogues not only have a lot more skill points, but sneak attack is so good it hurts..."
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2011-02-12, 12:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Japan
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Man could you imagine an 8 Int fighter who could train a horse AND ride it?
I mean that would just be ridiculous.Editor and playtester for Legend.
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2011-02-12, 12:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- The depths of my insanity
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Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
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2011-02-12, 01:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
As everyone else has commented, you always get at least 1 skill point per level no matter how low your int is.
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2011-02-12, 03:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: [3.5] Negative Skill Bonus in int...
Bonus skill points go after minimum of 1 from intelligence penalty. There are other references that it does. I forget if its RoD and Drag Comp, or BoED, but I have seen it.