[3.5] wizards or sorcerers

[slaydemons]

excuse me if I misspell I have really bad spelling abilities and grammar.

This question came to me after my friend said sorcs are better then wiz because, wiz if ther book is destroyed all their spells are gone and sorcs don't need spells to cast spells I still say wizards are better but I wanted other people to cast in their vote on what the like better.



Also is it possible to have a back up spell book by copying all your spells from one into another for back up?

[KillianHawkeye]

Also is it possible to have a back up spell book by copying all your spells from one into another for back up?

Not only is it possible, it's highly reccomended if your DM is a jerk who targets spellbooks.

As for which is better, Wizards are generally considered to be the best because they can learn a potentially unlimited number of spells and thus have a much greater ability to be prepared for different situations. A Sorcerer's flexibility does give them a greater ability to react to the unexpected, assuming they know a spell that would be useful.

[Loki Eremes]

Sry, but this thread is done more than once already.

www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185043&highlight=wizard+sorcerer

that one isnt old enough for necromancy i think, look for the opinions tough.

[Kerghan]

If you use the right combination of wizard spells (such as spell matrix I believe), a wizard becomes the most versatile of the two. Once again, it just comes down to careful spell selection. Sorcerers are excellent for first time arcane caster players (at the very least, full arcane casters) with a limited number of spell known and more casts per day. There are also potential ways to break sorcerer in much the same way a wizard is useful, like the PrC Mage of the Arcane Order. If you take the Arcane Preparation feat out of Complete Arcane which lets you use one or more of your spell slots per day to prepare spells (usually for metamagic purposes, but Rapid Metamagic out of Complete Mage is more useful for this purpose but has high prereq. 12 ranks of a skill) would qualify a sorcerer for this PrC (plus other feats as well). Mage of the Arcane Order has something called spellpool which allows them to call spells from the guild. The highest level spell you can access is half your caster level, and you have to return an equivalent level spell within a limited amount of time. But essentially, this gives sorcerers fantastic versatility with potentially more casts per day. Review it for yourselves and see what you can come up with.

[Fox Box Socks]

Wizards are better for campaigns (by a considerable amount), Sorcerers are better for one-shots (by a considerable amount).

[Alleran]

Wizards are generally deemed to be better. Even the spell slot issue is more or less fixed by Focused Specialist.

Though I prefer Sorcerers from a thematic sense. Wizards go by rote, Sorcerers just force the universe to accommodate them through sheer willpower/fighting spirit.

Also is it possible to have a back up spell book by copying all your spells from one into another for back up?

Yes, it's possible.

There's also a Dragon Magazine Alternate Class Feature for wizards that has them trade in Scribe Scroll and their Summon Familiar abilities in exchange for having all their spells in their memory ("Eidetic Spellcaster"). You still have to rest to memorise spells and so on, but your spellbook is in your head, so nobody can take it from you.

[Strife Warzeal]

There's also a Dragon Magazine Alternate Class Feature for wizards that has them trade in Scribe Scroll and their Summon Familiar abilities in exchange for having all their spells in their memory ("Eidetic Spellcaster"). You still have to rest to memorise spells and so on, but your spellbook is in your head, so nobody can take it from you.

Couldn't something like Mind Rape take it from you?

[Fox Box Socks]

Couldn't something like Mind Rape take it from you?

As well as any number of Telepathy psionics (Mind Seed comes to mind)

[Teron]

If you get hit with either of those, you're worse than dead anyway, and it's probably for the best that the new "you" doesn't get your spellbook.

[Kylarra]

Yeah the sorcerer isn't any better off if hit by those, so it's not really a counter to the awesomeness that is Eidetic spellcaster.

[HunterOfJello]

Q: Wizard or Sorcerer?

A: Depends on the player's playstyle.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Wizards and Sorcerers can both cover a multitude of roles. Wizards can cover more roles and cover many roles more thoroughly, but Sorcerers do have their superior niches. These are often based on Sorcerer-only spells, or spells which are superior when repeatable. For instance, the Sorcerer often makes for a better mailman in the middle levels, and the Spellwarp Sniper becomes ridiculous when combined with Wings of Flurry.

[Alleran]

Couldn't something like Mind Rape take it from you?

As others have pointed out, getting hit by something like that (especially if it can break through the defenses you should be keeping on at all times without exception as a properly paranoid wizard is known to do) means you're probably done for anyway, and there are much worse things that can happen to you than simply losing your spells. Not to mention that yes, sorcerers have the same problem.

[navar100]

Neither is better. Wizards have the advantage of being able to change their spells should they know the need for the change as adventures commence plus higher intelligence for the skill points. Sorcerers have the advantage of being able to cast a lot more spells per day and can use metamagic at the moment they want to.

Which to play is your personal preference or roleplaying. For my current campaign I'm playing a Sorcerer because for my particular spellcasting style, I like to have a standard operating procedure for spells. When I play clerics, for that particular character I choose a selection of spells and only change them for very specific circumstances for one particular adventure. As an arcane caster, whether wizard or sorcerer, I won't have access to as many spells, even though I can potentially know more as a wizard. Since I have less flexibility in changing my prepared spells, I know because of my personal style I will be casting the same spells over and over. As I wouldn't be changing my spells anyway, or at least it would be a minute amount of times I would want or be able to, sorcerer was the better fit for me since I have more spell slots per day to cast.

As a roleplaying choice I'm choosing my spells based on a theme, in this case colors. There are so many good spells to choose from I'm overwhelmed. Staying within the theme helps me decide. At low levels they'll tend to be illusions, like Silent Image, Color Spray, and Hypnotic Pattern, but Ray of Enfeeblement works for black while at higher levels Lesser Globe Of Invulnerability I'll flavor text as white, Disintegrate is green, and then there is Prismatic Spray.

[FMArthur]

However... A Focused Specialist Wizard has more spells per day than a Sorceror, and gets spells sooner. And I really can't see how Sorcerors have kept their reputation for increased flexibility for so long when they are effectively 'preparing' their tiny number of spells, permanently, when they gain new spells known at level-up. A Wizard has the flexibility to prepare anywhere between 4 and 7 different spells of each level in a day, and choose different ones every day. With the Uncanny Forethought feat he can even cast Int-mod spells per day spontaneously, from his huge selection of spells. So with splatbooks in play the Sorceror just gets left in the dust.

I make Sorcerors because they are less work, not out of any illusion of advantage. They are to Wizards what Warlocks are to Sorcerors.

[Fox Box Socks]

FMArthur has the right of it. Wizards are a pain in the ass to build from scratch for a high-level game, and Sorcerers are much easier to play (this is also why DMs prefer to make those pesky bandits Sorcerers and Barbarians rather than Wizards and Fighters; it seriously cuts down on bookkeeping).

[Tyndmyr]

excuse me if I misspell I have really bad spelling abilities and grammar.

This question came to me after my friend said sorcs are better then wiz because, wiz if ther book is destroyed all their spells are gone and sorcs don't need spells to cast spells I still say wizards are better but I wanted other people to cast in their vote on what the like better.

Also is it possible to have a back up spell book by copying all your spells from one into another for back up?

You can backup your spellbook, or dispense with the spellbook entirely by trading off something useless like your familiar. Plus, your spells are not really gone if a spellbook is lost. Those you have prepared remain prepared until cast. Sure, you have the expense and annoyance of rebuilding your library, but you can also prepare off scrolls, pearl of power spells back, etc.

Sorcs have sheer volume. If you value this quality, the question is not wizard or sorc, but rather, how can I combine a focused specialist wizard and a generic spellcaster(ie, a better sorc) via Ultimate Magus into an unholy abomination that can cast more spells in a day than anyone else has hit points?

The real edge of the sorcerer class itself are the sorc only spells, like Wings of Cover. They are epicly awesome.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Arcane Spellsurge, while technically sor/wiz, deserves mention as well.

[Roc Ness]

Vote for most powerful: Wizard, by a long shot, if played well.

Vote for favourite: Sorcerer, by a long shot. Wizards take too long to set up, time I often don't have and often can slow down a game. Sorcerer is a pick-up-and-go; if I pick some good spells, I'm set and ready to play. Also, so many more cool Class and PRC abilities are keyed off of Charisma.

If ever I feel like playing a wizard, I play a bookish beguiler instead. More my style.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and sorcerers get some neat unique spells too.

[Coidzor]

Sorcerers are a level behind wizards for spell progression and don't get any bonus feats or any other reward or ability for staying in their class. Wizard might not be a very good class, but it at least gives some bonus feats in addition to the casting.

Mechanically, Wizards just get more benefits.

Of course, they both should PRC out as soon as possible.

edit: On the note of backup spell books, Complete Arcane has rules for mastering a captured spellbook so it counts as one of your own.

[Killer Angel]

Who better?

short answer: Wizards
long answer: Quicken spells

[Leon]

Which is better is a matter of much opinion.
What they are is basically the same thing that goes about how they do it slightly differently.

Sorcerer - Small selection of spells, Large amount of slots to cast from, Spur of the moment choice

Wizard - (potentially) Large selection of spells, small amount of slots to cast from, must prepare in adavance