Doubles nines and +16 BAB: Does This Build Work?

[SurlySeraph]

I've got a build that, if I did it right, ends up with 17th-level Wizard casting, 17th-level Druid casting, and +16 BAB. It doesn't need flaws or fast-progression classes, though it does need early entry. Would anyone mind checking my work?

It requires the following questionable assumptions:
*Fractional BAB is in effect.
*The Sanctum Spell early entry trick for Mystic Theurge works.
*The Bamboo Spirit Folk Trackless Step racial ability works for entering Arcane Hierophant.
*Using Shape Soulmeld + Open Least Chakra to get Evasion works for entering Fochlucan Lyrist.

Build:
Bamboo Folk Ranger 1/ Druid 1/ Wizard 1/ Mystic Theurge 4/ Arcane Hierophant 2/ Bard 1/ Fochlucan Lyrist 10.
18 Int, other starting stats aren't critical. Put 4th and 8th-level stat points in Int.

Requirements to meet:

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Mystic Theurge requirements: Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, able to cast both 2nd-level arcane and 2nd-level
divine spells. Must meet by 3rd level.

Arcane Hierophant requirements: any nonlawful, BAB +4, Knowledge (arcana) 8, Knowledge (nature) 8, able to cast both 2nd-level arcane and 2nd-level
divine spells, trackless step. Must meet by 7th level.

Fochlucan Lyrist requirements: Decipher Script 7 ranks, Diplomacy 7 ranks, Gather Information 7 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 7 ranks, Perform (string instruments) 13 ranks, Sleight of Hand 7 ranks, Speak Language (Druidic),
ability to cast 1st-level arcane and divine spells, Bardic knowledge and evasion abilities. Must meet by 10th level.

Progression:

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1 Ranger. 40 skill points. 4 for 2 Know (Arcane), 4 for 2 Know (Religion), 4 Know (Nature), 4 for 2 Gather Info, 4 for 2 Perform, 4 for 2 Sleight of Hand, 16 free. Feat: Heighten Spell.
2 Druid. 8 skill points. 2 for 1 Know (Arcane), 2 for 1 Know (Religion). 1 Know (Nature), 3 free.
3 Wizard. 6 skill points. 3 in Know (Arcane), 3 in Know (Religion). Feat: Sanctum Spell.
4 Mystic Theurge. 6 skill points. 6 Decipher Script.
5 Mystic Theurge. 6 skill points. 1 Decipher Script, 2 Know (Arcane), 3 for 1.5 Gather Information.
6 Mystic Theurge. 6 skill points. 4 for 2 Sleight of Hand. 2 for 1 Gather Info. Feat: Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots)
7 Mystic Theurge. 6 skill points. 6 for 3 Know (Nature)
8 Arcane Hierophant. 9 skill points. Diplomacy 7. 2 for 1 Perform.
9 Arcane Hierophant. 9 skill points. 6 for 3 Perform. 2 for 1 Sleight of Hand, 1 for 1/2 Gather Info. Feat: Open Least Chakra
10 Bard. 11 skill points. Perform 7, Sleight of Hand 2, Gather Info 2.
11-20 Fochlucan Lyrist. Skills and feats no longer matter.

[Akal Saris]

Well, you already listed the questionable assumptions, so...

[Jack_Simth]

It also appears to require you start with an Int of 18, and put all level boosts (well, 4th and 8th, anyway) into Int. Might want to mention that, as you've got multiple important stats for what you're doing. If you're on, say, a 25 point buy, you will be HURTING.

[SurlySeraph]

It does, and I'll add that to the first post. And yeah, this is the kind of build that might actually want a Belt of Magnificence. Only Int and Wis are critical, but the rest are certainly nice.

[dextercorvia]

I'm not sure why are you are taking Heighten spell at 1st. Sanctum is covering your early entry, no? The only thing questionable is the Bamboo Spirit Folk ability is not a class ability. You already said that, I must have missed it.

[stainboy]

I don't think the Open Least Chakra trick works. You don't have evasion, you have the capacity to get evasion. That'd be like a cleric using her Divine Power BAB to qualify for feats.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

A ring of evasion would grant you evasion if the chakra trick is in question.

[Optimator]

I don't think the Open Least Chakra trick works. You don't have evasion, you have the capacity to get evasion. That'd be like a cleric using her Divine Power BAB to qualify for feats.

There is precedent for temporary feat and class qualification. Also, in practice, the soulmeld can be shaped more freely than a cleric can cast a spell, so it's not really the same thing.

[nedz]

A ring of evasion would grant you evasion if the chakra trick is in question.

No it doesn't.

Evasion
This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion. Whenever she makes a Reflex saving throw to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage.

Fochlucan Lyrist requires that you actually have the ability.

[Psyren]

Dual 9s and full BAB is easy: Ardent/Ur-Priest/Psychic Theurge with Divine Power.

[Draz74]

I don't think the Open Least Chakra trick works. You don't have evasion, you have the capacity to get evasion. That'd be like a cleric using her Divine Power BAB to qualify for feats.

By that logic, Druids can't get Flyby Attack or Improved Natural Attack or Multiattack, either. Which, for better or worse, goes against what game officials have consistently ruled on many occasions.

The Soulmeld trick actually bothers me less than most temporary-prerequisite-qualifications tricks, since at least the Soulmeld and Chakra bind can last indefinitely with no special timing-tricks. (Also, because the Evasion requirement for Fochlucan Lyrist is really kind of silly.)

[SurlySeraph]

Dual 9s and full BAB is easy: Ardent/Ur-Priest/Psychic Theurge with Divine Power.

Yeah, but using an Ardent is too easy and I felt compelled to get the most out of Fochlucan Lyrist.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Can't speak freely here. With only minor WBL bending, I have a triple nines buil

[SurlySeraph]

This one? The need for above-WBL items is a bit questionable; the need for a bloodline that gives you Assume Supernatural Ability is a lot more so. Nice work, though, and I definitely enjoy your build compendium.

[Psyren]

Can't speak freely here. With only minor WBL bending, I have a triple nines buil

Look, if this is another lame Candlejack joke, please sto

[faceroll]

I think it's rather elegant, considering. Nice use of Fochlucan Lyrist.

[Darrin]

No it doesn't.

Fochlucan Lyrist requires that you actually have the ability.

And when you are wearing the ring or have the soulmeld shaped, you have the ability.

Using magic items to qualify for a PrC works by RAW. Shaped soulmelds are treated like magic items. Either way, it works.

If the Fochlucan Lyrist requirements specified that evasion had to be a class ability, then you might have a stronger argument. But they don't, they just say "Special: Bardic knowledge and evasion abilities", and don't quibble about how you acquired them.

[SurlySeraph]

Thanks. The other day I reread Fochlucan Lyrist for the first time in years and became hellbent on making something useful out of it. It's full casting in two classes and full BAB and a skillmonkey, there must be a way to make it awesome! Getting +16 BAB and almost double nines was easy, but finishing it was hard. I'm a bit annoyed that I couldn't find a way to do it without fractional BAB, but unless there's a way to get Bardic Knowledge in a single level that gives full casting progression or full BAB, I don't think there's a way.

[Psyren]

Using magic items to qualify for a PrC works by RAW. Shaped soulmelds are treated like magic items. Either way, it works.

That's true but that's not what he means. The problem here is not that items can't qualify you for a PrC, it's that Ring of Evasion doesn't actually give you Evasion. (Though I would personally allow it, were I DMing.)

The soulmeld one works by RAW though.

[FMArthur]

Yeah, but using an Ardent is too easy and I felt compelled to get the most out of Fochlucan Lyrist.

Ardent or Ur-Priest are far from necessary though. The core of the issue his post brings up is that any dual-9s build with the Cleric list and Turn Undead can get all-day Divine Power and full BAB with it without having to dedicate the build to acquiring BAB from class sources.

Wizard X/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge X can have full BAB and double nines using DMM: Persistent Spell (Divine Power).

If Bamboo Spirit Folk gets you into Arcane Hierophant, then even the basic Wizard/Cleric hybrid can get full BAB and two nines. Archivists with a level of Sacred Exorcist can do it too. So can Druids with a level in Contemplative.

For that matter, you don't even need to stop at two nines to keep full BAB.
Ardent 5/Beholder Mage 2/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 3/Cerebremancer/Psychic Theurge 4 can also get full BAB. Not that such a character could be convinced to care about it.

[nedz]

And when you are wearing the ring or have the soulmeld shaped, you have the ability.

Using magic items to qualify for a PrC works by RAW. Shaped soulmelds are treated like magic items. Either way, it works.

If the Fochlucan Lyrist requirements specified that evasion had to be a class ability, then you might have a stronger argument. But they don't, they just say "Special: Bardic knowledge and evasion abilities", and don't quibble about how you acquired them.

Psyren seems to have understood.

FL requires that you have the ability. The Ring of Evasion just allows you to evade reflex AoEs (etc.) as if you had the ability. This is RAW.

Ed: sp