Ingnoring Feat Prerequisites - Best Feats

[Tael]

Inspired by the Martial Monk thread, of you could ignore prerequisites for feats, what feats would you take?

Epic Feats are not game, but pretty much anything else is.

[Hawk7915]

Do you mean for the martial monk specifically, or for any character ever?

Martial Monk:
- Bludgeoning Weapon Mastery doesn't make them not suck, but single-handedly eliminating the Flurry penalties and giving them +2 damage would go a long way towards making them keep up with other T4-5 classes (although by the text of the feat and the dubious nature of Martial Monk, I'm not sure it works)

- Getting Ki-blast at level 2 is interesting (with "Extra Stunning" to fuel it), although it looses its luster by level 5 or so unless you have a crazy high Wisdom.

- Elusive Target without the terrible pre-reqs could be nice for a lot of different classes.

In General:
- Battlefield control builds can now dump Int and take Improved Trip, and snag Knock-down without being a Goliath or half-ogre.

- I'm pretty sure we'd actually see a bit more fighter/warblade/barbarian two-weapon fighters, now that the TWF line doesn't require an outrageous (and often wasted) Dexterity score.

- Robilar's Gambit at 1st level is yes.

- Leadership and Arcane Thesis at 1st level is a bit intimidating.

In general this seems to help martial types out a lot more. I approve. Are there any caster-specific feats that get a lot more broken without prerequisites? I guess Sudden Quicken Spell does, but it's still only 1/day.

[Jack_Simth]

Inspired by the Martial Monk thread, of you could ignore prerequisites for feats, what feats would you take?

Epic Feats are not game, but pretty much anything else is.

Vow of Poverty, minus the Exalted requirement and the requirement to get rid of / not use stuff?

[Amnestic]

Vow of Poverty, minus the Exalted requirement and the requirement to get rid of / not use stuff?

I'd say "this", especially considering you can get a bunch of extra feats from it which also wouldn't have any requirements. Yummy.

[Kurald Galain]

Chicken Infested!

[WinWin]

flyby attack

I can't recall if it is called greater or improved rapidstrike.

there are a host of monsterous feats that would be very tempting to take, especially the draconic ones.

[Kobold Esq]

- Leadership

I'm unsure how useful your level -1 cohort would be at first level.

[tyckspoon]

Spring Attack/Rapid Blitz: Actually useful and quite good if you're not stuck with Dodge, Mobility, and the annoyingly high BAB requirements on Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Chicken Infested!

That's a flaw, though it would be nice to get another prerequisite-less feat.

On topic, I'd take something like Leadership. And Hidden Talent: Telempathic Projection. And then have my followers make Aid Another attempts on my Intimidate, Diplomacy, Bluff, Perform and Sense Motive checks against anyone I used my psionic power on, and general Aid Another attempts on everything I do.

[Psyren]

Vow of Poverty, minus the Exalted requirement and the requirement to get rid of / not use stuff?

The prohibition against items is built into the feat itself, not its prereqs. So I would take WBL over this myself.

As for me, I'd grab the Monk Pressure Point feat and some Extra Stunning Fists to fuel it. I can get a variety of effects by poking myself (and offensive effects by poking others.)

[Jack_Simth]

I'm unsure how useful your level -1 cohort would be at first level.

If you work on your Charsima and leadership score a little, you can also get followers - which don't have the level cap.

The prohibition against items is built into the feat itself, not its prereqs. So I would take WBL over this myself.

As for me, I'd grab the Monk Pressure Point feat and some Extra Stunning Fists to fuel it. I can get a variety of effects by poking myself (and offensive effects by poking others.)

Ah, that does put a crimp on things. Hmm....

[Gravitron5000]

I'm unsure how useful your level -1 cohort would be at first level.

I think you could find some use for a wight cohort.

[Siosilvar]

Shield Slam's a good one. So is Improved Precise Shot.

Martial Stance? You'd probably still need to meet the IL requirement for the stance, though.

[FMArthur]

Some of the best feats don't even have difficult prerequisites. Particularly for spellcasters; Divine Metamagic, Uncanny Forethought and Craft Contingent Spell are all incredibly powerful or useful, and only require one easily-acquired feat each or simply a certain caster level in CCS's case. Expensive feat chains are generally a melee thing.

Anyway, I'd take Robilar's Gambit, Karmic Strike and Double-Hit. Putting all three of these on the same sheet pretty much dedicates the whole character to it because of their wide assortment of painful requirements. I guess you could also pull meaner-than-normal stuff with Aptitude Weapon abuse, which is pretty mean to begin with. Lightning Maces, Snap Kick, Roundabout Kick...

It would be nice to pick feat combos that didn't need 6 levels of bonus feat dips to do it in a reasonable time frame (ie before the tactic is obviated by the trends of high-level combat).

[Kurald Galain]

I'm unsure how useful your level -1 cohort would be at first level.

Consider the possibilities of integer underflow...

[Uncertainty]

Pounce for everyone?

[Draz74]

- Robilar's Gambit at 1st level is yes.

On the contrary, giving your opponents +4 attack/damage against you is suicide at Level 1.

[Jack_Simth]

Some of the best feats don't even have difficult prerequisites. Particularly for spellcasters; Divine Metamagic,

Divine Metamagic requires you have the metamagic feat in question (thanks to errata) - which, if you're doing a Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) build, means you've got two additional feats for Extra Turning (or one additional feat and an available domain choice).

[Aemoh87]

lets be honest.

The best two feats in the game are:

1. Natural Spell
2. Divine Metamagic

[Kobold Esq]

lets be honest.

The best two feats in the game are:

1. Natural Spell
2. Divine Metamagic

Druids are often the easiest characters for me to build. Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Natural Spell, Greenbond Summoning, and maybe toss on Dragon Wildshape if you feel like being able to plane shift (thanks gem dragons!).

[ex cathedra]

lets be honest.

The best two feats in the game are:

1. Natural Spell
2. Divine Metamagic

In some respects, they are, but the truth is none of the classes that can use those feats need to use them. They're pretty much tier 1 regardless. So, in a relative power sense, they don't do much for the user. Also, neither of those feats work if you don't meet their prerequisites, so there's no reason to name them in this thread.

[Kobold Esq]

In some respects, they are, but the truth is none of the classes that can use those feats need to use them. They're pretty much tier 1 regardless. So, in a relative power sense, they don't do much for the user. Also, neither of those feats work if you don't meet their prerequisites, so there's no reason to name them in this thread.

lol, yeah... a monk (or first level druid) with natural spell won't be accomplishing much.

[Zaq]

Getting the last feat in all the X Heritage lines (Draconic Legacy, Fey Legacy, etc.) can be decent if you want a magical kind of character.

Open Greater Chakra would be kinda crazy.

Utterance of the Perfected Map means that you'd be just one more feat (Truespeak Training) and some skill ranks away from using Fog from the Void with reasonable reliability. Since it's a decent utterance (read: SOLID FOG) and the DC for LPM utterances doesn't increase, it might be worth it.

Some of the greater psionic feats (e.g., Greater Psionic Weapon) would be acceptable at low levels. +4d6 isn't much at level 10 (not negligible, but hardly amazing), but it's killer at level 4.

[Aemoh87]

In some respects, they are, but the truth is none of the classes that can use those feats need to use them. They're pretty much tier 1 regardless. So, in a relative power sense, they don't do much for the user. Also, neither of those feats work if you don't meet their prerequisites, so there's no reason to name them in this thread.

Correct, but they are really good. I think if you get rid of fluff VoP is as good as it gets. Leadership is great too.

[dextercorvia]

Reserves of Strength

Rapid Metamagic (for spontaneous casters)

Arcane Thesis (as was mentioned)

Uncanny Forethought without Spell Mastery is fairly choice, although the -2 CL could hurt at level 1.

Versatile Spellcaster (for Wizard/Archivist without jumping through hoops)

[Draco Ignifer]

It's a pity Epic feats aren't part of this. A lot of them are things that would make the game much more interesting if they could be taken without the insane prerequisites. Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting would make TWF a lot more viable, for example, and Improved Whirlwind attack might be a viable move for mid- to high-level fighters.

Of course, everyone would just pick Epic Leadership and Epic Spellcasting =P

[Kobold Esq]

It's a pity Epic feats aren't part of this. A lot of them are things that would make the game much more interesting if they could be taken without the insane prerequisites. Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting would make TWF a lot more viable, for example, and Improved Whirlwind attack might be a viable move for mid- to high-level fighters.

Of course, everyone would just pick Epic Leadership and Epic Spellcasting =P

The vast majority of Epic feats just aren't that epic.

[dextercorvia]

If Epic feats were allowed. Improved Spell Capacity would be a no-brainer. Your first level human Wizard would have 2-5th level spells.

[Sucrose]

Beyond what others have already pointed out...

Pierce Magical Concealment is already pretty good, but it gets a whole lot better when you don't need to burn feats on Blind-Fight and Mage Slayer (though the latter isn't a terrible feat either).

Elusive Target and Spring Attack would probably get a lot more love, since you wouldn't need to concern yourself with Dodge and Mobility.

Extra Rage could be kinda fun, duplicating the Barbarian's main reason for existence (aside from those lucky enough to be granted the Spirit Lion Totem) with one feat.

Shock Trooper and Combat Brute would be a bit more viable for non-Fighters (though I know that they're already darn solid), allowing them to allocate two feats to non-charging tricks.

Three Mountains, with the removal of three weak feats, becomes a very good bargain.

[dextercorvia]

I think that Extra Rage wouldn't work. I'm not looking at it right now, but it seems to me that it is phrased like Extra Turning, and you get extra uses of "your Rage/Frenzy ability".