New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: [3.5] Juggladin

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crasical's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default [3.5] Juggladin

    3.5 DnD. Favor Dex, Str and Cha.
    Five levels of the Thug variant of Fighter.

    Take Apprentice (Entertainer) as your feat at 1st level. You'll want Perform (Weapon Drill) or (Juggling) throughout your career, along with ranks in Sleight of hand.

    Take Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Weapon Focus (Club) as your fighter bonus and levelup feats.

    Take 5 levels of Master Thrower. I favor Sneaky shot, Trip Shot, and Weak Spot as the thrown weapon tricks.

    You're now level 10, with the ability to throw juggling clubs as touch attacks, trip enemies with them, and deny them their dex bonus to dodge. You're a ranged-fighting combat jester.

    Now, start taking levels of Paladin of Freedom. I recommend taking the complete warrior version that lets you turn any weapon you touch into a good-aligned weapon over the spellcasting, but if you've got wis to spare, that's fine too.

    Thug 5/Master Thrower 5/Paladin of Freedom 10.

    If you're human or have flaws, you can take Brutal Throw and only have to focus on Str. and Charisma.
    I love weird and amusing builds in 3.5. Any ideas on how to improve this one, or variants by taking another PRC or base class for the last 10 levels?
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    [..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
    That's beautiful Crasical... Simply marvelous.
    Avatar by the esteemed Prime32

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    drakir_nosslin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The cold north

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Perhaps a little bit of Bloodstorm blade if you can squeeze it in? They pretty much focus on throwing melee weapons.
    Every time I post a statement feel free to add 'In my opinion...' whenever applicable.

    Avatar by Balford

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Xin-Shalast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    I believe there's a substitution level for Pallys that lets them apply Smite to ranged attacks. I think it involves Elves though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    I believe Ranged Smite is also a feat in BoED.

    I'd so no to bloodstorm blade, as it kinda defeats the purpose.

    Though while I'm at it, I should probably make sure I understand the purpose:

    You're using perform (weapon drill/juggling) to justify having more weapons "at the ready" than you have hands and thus don't need Quick Draw, right?

    Also, paladin throwing build: grats on finding the first use for the CW spell-less variant I've ever seen.
    Last edited by Pechvarry; 2011-02-16 at 10:18 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crasical's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    The purpose of the build is weaponized juggling clubs and to be amusing. See: I like weird builds. Also to have a paladin clown.

    I don't have or use the Book of Nine Swords, so this build has no bloodstorm-blade. *shrug!*

    There is a whole 10/11 levels of this build I'm not married to, so there's absolutely room to add things. The 5th level of thug for example does absolutely nothing, so as long as you take a full-bab class in that slot, you still qualify for Master Thrower and can take 11 levels of whatever class it was, which is enough to get master weapon style and get full TWF, letting you juggle knives as well as clubs. Alternatively, you can get Greater Rage if you go barbarian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    [..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
    That's beautiful Crasical... Simply marvelous.
    Avatar by the esteemed Prime32

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    drakir_nosslin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The cold north

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Pechvarry View Post
    I'd so no to bloodstorm blade, as it kinda defeats the purpose.
    How on earth does bloodstorm blade destroy a build that is designed to throw melee weapons? It's designed to do exactly that

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    I don't have or use the Book of Nine Swords, so this build has no bloodstorm-blade. *shrug!*
    Ah, too bad. Oh well, ToB can't be used every time
    Every time I post a statement feel free to add 'In my opinion...' whenever applicable.

    Avatar by Balford

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crasical's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by drakir_nosslin View Post
    How on earth does bloodstorm blade destroy a build that is designed to throw melee weapons? It's designed to do exactly that
    Because it turns your thrown attacks into 'melee attacks, but at range' and lets you use things like power attack ect . with them. Which means they don't qualify for Master Thrower tricks anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    [..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
    That's beautiful Crasical... Simply marvelous.
    Avatar by the esteemed Prime32

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    drakir_nosslin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The cold north

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    Because it turns your thrown attacks into 'melee attacks, but at range' and lets you use things like power attack ect . with them. Which means they don't qualify for Master Thrower tricks anymore.
    Aha. I've never used the master thrower, so I didn't think of that
    On the other hand... Maneuvers
    Every time I post a statement feel free to add 'In my opinion...' whenever applicable.

    Avatar by Balford

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    For some reason I thought this thread had something to do with the Insane Clown Posse. I am glad it didn't.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crasical's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by drakir_nosslin View Post
    Aha. I've never used the master thrower, so I didn't think of that
    On the other hand... Maneuvers
    Can you do better than ranged attacks that trip, count as touch attacks, and don't allow dexterity with maneuvers?
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    [..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
    That's beautiful Crasical... Simply marvelous.
    Avatar by the esteemed Prime32

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    drakir_nosslin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The cold north

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    Can you do better than ranged attacks that trip, count as touch attacks, and don't allow dexterity with maneuvers?
    Ha! I thought I could until I realized that Bloodstorm Blade only allows Iron Heart maneuvers to be used at ranged. I admit defeat
    Every time I post a statement feel free to add 'In my opinion...' whenever applicable.

    Avatar by Balford

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    The Rabbler's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    the 64th layer
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    The feat Throw Anything (which bloodstorm blade gives you) allows you to treat any melee weapon as if it were a ranged weapon. There's nothing that says master thrower's tricks don't still apply and I'm pretty sure they add to a bloodstorm blade quite nicely.

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    Because it turns your thrown attacks into 'melee attacks, but at range' and lets you use things like power attack ect . with them. Which means they don't qualify for Master Thrower tricks anymore.
    It doesn't turn all ranged attacks into melee attacks, rather it gives you the option of doing so. You decide this at the beginning of your turn when you decide whether or not you want to use a swift action to get this ability.
    Last edited by The Rabbler; 2011-02-16 at 05:00 PM.
    *note: not all advice by this poster is meant to be taken seriously.

    Warlock/Swordsage avatar by yldenfrei

    optimization is like salt. a pinch here and there can't hurt, but too much will spoil everything.

    I have salty tastes.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crasical's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Hrm. Problems I can see:

    1. Thrown trip attacks are Dex only. If you're going str-only with Brutal Throw, you might have to pick another thrown weapon trick or convince your DM that since you're using STR to hit, you can use STR to trip.
    2. Denying enemies their Dex bonus isn't all that great unless you grab sneak attack dice from somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    [..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
    That's beautiful Crasical... Simply marvelous.
    Avatar by the esteemed Prime32

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crasical's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rabbler View Post
    The feat Throw Anything (which bloodstorm blade gives you) allows you to treat any melee weapon as if it were a ranged weapon. There's nothing that says master thrower's tricks don't still apply and I'm pretty sure they add to a bloodstorm blade quite nicely. It doesn't turn all ranged attacks into melee attacks, rather it gives you the option of doing so. You decide this at the beginning of your turn when you decide whether or not you want to use a swift action to get this ability.
    Ah, teach me to talk about a book I don't own like an expert.
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    [..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
    That's beautiful Crasical... Simply marvelous.
    Avatar by the esteemed Prime32

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    The Rabbler's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    the 64th layer
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    Hrm. Problems I can see:

    1. Thrown trip attacks are Dex only. If you're going str-only with Brutal Throw, you might have to pick another thrown weapon trick or convince your DM that since you're using STR to hit, you can use STR to trip.
    2. Denying enemies their Dex bonus isn't all that great unless you grab sneak attack dice from somewhere.
    Or you could just treat your weapon as a melee weapon at range and trip with strength anyway.

    As for your other point, I'm not really sure how that applies, as your build doesn't have much sneak attack either.

    My point was that bloodstorm blade and master thrower do, in fact, work very well together and that having both doesn't limit the options of one. In fact, adding bloodstorm blade to a master thrower build only increases the options with the ability to initiate maneuvers from a distance or pretend that your melee weapon has 30' range.

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    Ah, teach me to talk about a book I don't own like an expert.
    I wasn't making any accusations, just clearing up a misconception.
    Last edited by The Rabbler; 2011-02-16 at 05:08 PM.
    *note: not all advice by this poster is meant to be taken seriously.

    Warlock/Swordsage avatar by yldenfrei

    optimization is like salt. a pinch here and there can't hurt, but too much will spoil everything.

    I have salty tastes.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crasical's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    I was noting these as problems with my version of the build, not with a version that uses BSB.
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    [..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
    That's beautiful Crasical... Simply marvelous.
    Avatar by the esteemed Prime32

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    drakir_nosslin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The cold north

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rabbler View Post
    The feat Throw Anything (which bloodstorm blade gives you) allows you to treat any melee weapon as if it were a ranged weapon. There's nothing that says master thrower's tricks don't still apply and I'm pretty sure they add to a bloodstorm blade quite nicely.
    It doesn't turn all ranged attacks into melee attacks, rather it gives you the option of doing so. You decide this at the beginning of your turn when you decide whether or not you want to use a swift action to get this ability.
    Whohoo! I knew ToB could be used for everything
    Go go power thrower!
    And bloodstorm blade doesn't use brutal throw afaik, I think you maybe meant Thunderous Throw, which is the 'ranged melee attack' ability. But with a one level dip your ranged attacks are suddenly returning.
    Every time I post a statement feel free to add 'In my opinion...' whenever applicable.

    Avatar by Balford

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    The Rabbler's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    the 64th layer
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    I was noting these as problems with my version of the build, not with a version that uses BSB.
    Ah, my mistake.

    For your build, you could dump str entirely and go for full sneak attack with some rogue levels and the Craven feat. I'd suggest at least 3 to get the Precise Strike (I think) ACF from dungeonscape, so your sneak attacks are never worthless. You could also go wolf totem barbarian (with whirling frenzy for the extra attack) to get both the improved trip feat and a +4 bonus to trip attacks that stacks with the feat itself. I'd have to read the wording, but you might also be able to have the knockdown feat apply to ranged attacks, so you could deal some sneak attack damage, trip them, then attack them again via Improved Trip.

    I'll check to see if any of these feats don't work because of wording.

    EDIT: thats what I get for not reading all the way through stuff; improved trip and knockdown require melee, it seems (though they'd still work with a BSB).

    EDIT2: If you end up having a worthwhile int and you use finesse-able weapons, you could pick up three levels of swashbuckler and get int to damage. If you have good int and feel like being awesome, you could take some levels in factotum to get int to everything (including attacks and damage) and tons of skill points. Take able learner at level 1 and you can get all skills as class skills forever, so you can be the ultimate skillmonkey. As for more combat stuff, if you could find a way of reliably and consistently (very hard to do without spells) making the enemy flat-footed, you could use factotum to get you some Iaijutsu Focus (OA) damage on top of your sneak attack. Aside from that, I'm out of ideas.
    Last edited by The Rabbler; 2011-02-16 at 05:37 PM.
    *note: not all advice by this poster is meant to be taken seriously.

    Warlock/Swordsage avatar by yldenfrei

    optimization is like salt. a pinch here and there can't hurt, but too much will spoil everything.

    I have salty tastes.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London, EU
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    If you must have full BAB there's the Sneak Fighter from UA.
    5 Levels will give you 3d6 sneak and 5 BAB.
    It will cost you some feats though.

    5 Levels of Scout might work since that would give you 2d6 skirmish, and the ability to take Improved Skirmish for 2d6 more. Do you have a way of moving and full attacking though ? Probably not I'd guess. This would cost you 2 BAB, but give you a feat back, some skill points and a few other toys.

    Ranger is possible, full BAB, TWF and an animal companion to play fetch.
    The Distracting attack varient from PH2 might work, but you're using other tricks to get that effect and gain no benefit yourself. I'm not conviced that this class works for you.
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
    Warped Druid Handbook

    Avatar by Caravaggio

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    I wish I knew...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    Because it turns your thrown attacks into 'melee attacks, but at range' and lets you use things like power attack ect . with them. Which means they don't qualify for Master Thrower tricks anymore.
    Ummm.... no.

    It permits you to treat thrown attacks as though they were also melee attacks, which lets you power attack et all with them. That means they are still thrown attacks.

    Furthermore, what this does that you may not be aware of is automatic returning on all your thrown weapons, which means you don't disarm yourself in the first round, even WITH all your thrown weapons you are juggling.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crasical's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Ummm.... no.

    It permits you to treat thrown attacks as though they were also melee attacks, which lets you power attack et all with them. That means they are still thrown attacks.

    Furthermore, what this does that you may not be aware of is automatic returning on all your thrown weapons, which means you don't disarm yourself in the first round, even WITH all your thrown weapons you are juggling.
    Yes, I was already corrected on that. I am also aware of the free returning weapons, I just chose not to use it because I'm not really a fan of Bo9S classes and don't have the book they're in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    [..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
    That's beautiful Crasical... Simply marvelous.
    Avatar by the esteemed Prime32

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crasical's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    If you must have full BAB there's the Sneak Fighter from UA.
    5 Levels will give you 3d6 sneak and 5 BAB.
    It will cost you some feats though.
    I'm already using the Thug variant, and I need the fighter feats to qualify for Master Thrower early. I don't think you can swap between Sneak Attack fighter and the normal Feats version between levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    [..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
    That's beautiful Crasical... Simply marvelous.
    Avatar by the esteemed Prime32

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
    Dec 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    Ranger is possible, full BAB, TWF and an animal companion to play fetch.
    The Distracting attack varient from PH2 might work, but you're using other tricks to get that effect and gain no benefit yourself. I'm not conviced that this class works for you.
    I don't know how to make ranger work properly for this build but I sure hope someone knows a class with animal companion access that just happens to be suitable. This character is just screaming for a bear cub sidekick who wears a tutu and rides a unicycle.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    My head
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    ****ing lay on hands. How does that work?

    ... umm... yeah. This needs to be pimped out with Ride (Unicycle) and some effective ways to fight unarmored (in fool's motley.)

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    I don't see what Paladin offers you, really. The juggling is cute, but why Paladin?
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crasical's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    It's a full BaB class and I like the idea of a holy fool. I'm not especially married to the idea, really. Those levels could be anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    [..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
    That's beautiful Crasical... Simply marvelous.
    Avatar by the esteemed Prime32

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Joliet, IL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Juggladin

    Work in Invisible Blade and juggle knives. That gets you some sneak attack as well as making you a total master of feinting. and why not Bard? Imagine, your bardic music is powered by juggling and witty comments. Also there is a mountebank class somewhere.

    Also instead of pure fighter multiclass with swash buckler and pick up int to damage and weapon finesse.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •