4e Swordmage|Warlock in Eberron

[Dusk Eclipse]

I need help to make a good Swordmage|Wizard hybrid character for a (to the best of my knowledge) converted game of Eyes of the lich queen.

I was planning on going a psionic assassin build; but since I am not familiar with 4e psionic classes and I don't really think the character would work as a psion in 4e.

So I want to make a Swordmage|WizardWarlock, so help?

My sources are the character builder which was last updated... before October 2010 (AFAIK the last update before it became web-only).

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Edit: Changed thread's Title.

[Dust]

As a Swordmage/Wizard, you'd lean towards a Defender role as your best build; up close and personal with solid defenses. If that's not what you're looking to do with your character, consider alternatives. Psion is actually really easy once you've played a game or two as one, but is a very different style of fighting than what a wizard/swordmage would be.

If it was me, I'd probably do something like this;


Human, Swordmage|Wizard, Wizard of the Spiral Tower, Undying Warrior
Hybrid Talent: Swordmage Warding
Swordmage Aegis (Hybrid): Aegis of Shielding

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 16, Dex 12, Int 16 (+2), Wis 10, Cha 8.

LOW-LEVEL FEATS
Human: Hybrid Talent
Level 1: Armor Proficiency (Leather)
Level 2: Reaper's Touch
*Taken to make best use of Wizard's Fury and point blank magic missile fire, if your GM will allow it. Some call this feat a Shadar-kai racial only.
Level 4: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 6: Focused Expertise (Longsword)
Level 8: White Lotus Riposte
Level 10: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 11: White Lotus Master Riposte

LOW-LEVEL SUGGESTED POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Sword Burst
Hybrid Swordmage at-will 1: Frigid Blade
Hybrid Wizard at-will 1: Magic Missile
*Taken to gain a ranged attack ability, and is worth using with Wizard's Fury
Hybrid encounter 1: Burning Hands
Hybrid daily 1: Wizard's Fury
Hybrid utility 2: Channeling Shield
Hybrid encounter 3: Dimensional Vortex
Hybrid daily 5: Swordmage Shielding Fire
Hybrid utility 6: Wizard's Escape
Hybrid encounter 7: Spectral Ram
Hybrid daily 9: Wall of Fire
Hybrid utility 10: Mass Resistance

[Dusk Eclipse]

I don't really have a good idea of what I want to do, to be honest, I just got a PM (in another forum) before posting this thread, telling me the game would be in 4e. So I was just throwing some ideas.

I know swordmage are defenders by default; but I would really like to be a secondary striker, is that is possible with a Swordmage|Wizard?

If not I am open to any class really.

Edit: Facepalm, stupid Dusk for not thanking.

[Excession]

I know swordmage are defenders by default; but I would really like to be a secondary striker, is that is possible with a Swordmage|Wizard?

A Swordmage|Wizard probably isn't going to be very good at damage. You will be capable of damaging lots of targets at once, but without a lot of optimisation it won't be very much damage. You can be good at shutting down enemies and preventing them from damaging others, and you'll be tough enough to stand in the front lines.

A front lines Sorcerer, dragon magic perhaps, would be a better way to be magical, highly damaging, and fairly tough IMO.

[Dusk Eclipse]

A Swordmage|Wizard probably isn't going to be very good at damage. You will be capable of damaging lots of targets at once, but without a lot of optimisation it won't be very much damage. You can be good at shutting down enemies and preventing them from damaging others, and you'll be tough enough to stand in the front lines.

A front lines Sorcerer, dragon magic perhaps, would be a better way to be magical, highly damaging, and fairly tough IMO.

That actually sounds quite nice

[Dust]

It's possible to create a very bursty Wizard/Swordmage, but it doesn't start working until Paragon tier. The short version is the Sword Burst at-will power, combined with the Arcane Admixture feat from Arcane Power, and then a bunch of other stuff that increases thunder-based damage; You end up with an at-will power with a 7x7 square range, only affects enemies, and hits like a truck.

You can also turn it into a reach 3 polearm-using swordburst that slides and knocks your enemies prone - but again, the build really doesn't take off until late Paragon, early Epic.

At low levels, you'll be a Defender.

If you'd like to talk about how you see your character fighting, talk about them from a roleplaying stance or even how you as a player like to contribute to a fight, I'd be happy to suggest a solid striker build that combines both magic and melee. Or, if you simply want a melee control-monkey, you could try a reflavored Warden.

[Dusk Eclipse]

As I said before I haven't think that much about this character; I will admit without shame that I usually put the mechanics before the fluff (please don't start a discussion about this). I am a power/roll gamer and proud of it, so please bear with me.

But the few ideas I ma having are more like a fast moving, annoying warrior; something along the lines of a real-life Guerilla warrior, he comes in strikes and dissapear before the enemy has time to react. But I want for it to have a more magical feel to it; I know I can make a mobile fighter using an avenger; but I want this guy to do that because he has unlocked his own potential or have studied hard enough to tell the laws of physics "go sit in the corner while I do this". Teleports and things that hamper the enemies are also greatly appreciated.

Make sense?

[Dust]

Your wish, my command.

Option #1

Spoiler

Show

Build a hybrid swordmage|warlock. This gives you exactly what you want out of combat - to get in enemies faces and take them down, controlling the battlefield by telling physics to shut up and go sit in the corner 'til you're through. You'll want to go down the Evermeet Warlock Paragon path, and also grab the following; Mark of Passage (+1 teleport distance), Eladrin Swordmage Advance (MBA after Feystep)
As for equipment, look into an Incisive Dagger (+Enhancement teleport distance), an Eladrin Ring of Passage (+2 teleport distance), Eladrin Boots (+2 teleport distance) or Planestrider Boots (You teleport taking an ally with you), and Eldritch Strike (useable as MBA, 1W+Con and slide 1).

So put this all together, and here's what we have; you've all-but-completely abandoned your Defender role in exchange for straight up control and damage, and you have the ability to teleport basically at will for pretty exceptional distances. Everytime you teleport, you also move so fast that you're INVISIBLE, and whatever you wind up adjacent to can't react to your presence in time. You hit hard, and fast, and you'll make your DM cry with your ability to shut down his tactical plans. You way as well be immune to grapples and dangerous terrain, and you'll be nearly untouchable defensively.

Option #2
Feysword and Feyblade

[Dusk Eclipse]

Madam, you are my heroine, the option 1 is really something that might work for me; but I've got one question, can it works at low levels? the game starts at level 5 and I think it would end by level 11-ish (unless the DM decides to continue past the module)

[Dust]

You won't have teleport at-will until level 11, but you'll still be a force to be reckoned even at low levels without losing the basic feel/flavor. I wouldn't propose a build unless it was playable and solid from 1-30.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Here is the rough build I just made

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Adilex D'Orien, level 5
Eladrin, Warlock|Swordmage
Swordmage Aegis (Hybrid): Aegis of Assault
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Infernal Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Shadow Walk
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Constitution
Background: Orien Courier (Stealth class skill)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 16, Dex 12, Int 19, Wis 10, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 15, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 9.


AC: 16 Fort: 15 Reflex: 17 Will: 14
HP: 49 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 12

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Insight +7, Stealth +8, Arcana +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +5, Heal +2, History +8, Intimidate +1, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +6, Streetwise +1, Thievery +3, Athletics +4

FEATS
Level 1: Mark of Passage
Level 2: Eladrin Swordmage Advance
Level 4: Hybrid Talent

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Eldritch Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Booming Blade
Hybrid encounter 1: Life Bind
Hybrid daily 1: Armor of Agathys
Hybrid utility 2: Dimensional Warp
Hybrid encounter 3: Dual Lightning Strike
Hybrid daily 5: Dimensional Bond

====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

[MeeposFire]

Unless you are going to be using concealment in some way or you are absolutely going to be using both hands (and even then I think shadow walk is not as good) I would go swordmage warding. Gives better defense that stacks with concealment.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Unless you are going to be using concealment in some way or you are absolutely going to be using both hands (and even then I think shadow walk is not as good) I would go swordmage warding. Gives better defense that stacks with concealment.

I was planning going with either a glavie or a falchion: but perhaps a longsword is not a bad idea.

[Excession]

You could start with a little more Con. A 16/16 array would seem suitable:
Str 13, Con 16, Dex 11, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 8.

Having 13 Str lets you pick up Hide Armour proficiency along with a couple of other feats, and the post-racial 13 in Dex also unlocks a couple of feats.

Consider taking Sword Burst over Booming Blade. A Close Burst 1 attack that only targets enemies is pretty powerful generally, even with the slightly lower damage dice and no defender aspect. As a front line half defender you're going to be surrounded a lot.

+1 on Swordmage Warding. Extra armour all the time will beat concealment when you're able to move. The being surrounded thing will stop you from moving a lot.

Edit: I was assuming longsword, taking Eladrin Soldier or bastard sword proficiency as an upgrade later.

[Fox Box Socks]

I find that if you're at all going to be spending any time on the front lines, starting with balanced NADs is way more important than an 18 in your attack stat, especially if you're going to be using a +3 proficiency weapon for half of your powers.

After modifiers, 13 STR 12 DEX 16 CON 16 INT 14 WIS 8 CHA is a great array, because it gives you a solid NAD base, prerequisites for Hide Armor Proficiency, and a modest boost to Initiative.

EDIT: Swordmage/Wizards, especially Shielding ones, are all about playing keep away from your Aegis target. Ray of Frost or Thunderwave are strictly better than Magic Missile at this. Hell, you could even go Ensnaring Swordmage, swap your Con and Wis scores, pump Wis and Int for maximum Thunderwave shenanigans, and go Wandering Swordmage at Paragon.

Just a thought on another way to go.

[Zaydos]

I'd like to second the suggestion of Sword Burst over Booming Blade. I played a swordmage for... probably 8 to 10 sessions and I used booming blade maybe twice and Sword Burst was my main weapon by a good bit. My DM did love minions, though.

[Kurald Galain]

*Taken to make best use of Wizard's Fury and point blank magic missile fire, if your GM will allow it. Some call this feat a Shadar-kai racial only.

That's because it was errata'ed to be Shard-kai only.

Note also that White Lotus Riposte was errata'ed to not work on marked enemies (making it pretty useless for a swordmage) and that Enlarge Spell was errata'ed to only work on wizard powers (ditto). Of course, if your DM plays by the book instead of by the errata, both of these are recommended.

I would suggest you avoid Magic Missile; it's one of the weakest at-wills a wizard can get. Instead of Wizard's Fury, take one of the board-sweeping wizard dailies like Sleep or Flaming Sphere. For that matter, take as many wizard dailies as possible.

Also, if you're going to be a frontline defender, I highly recommend the Fire Shield wizard utility power: anyone who attacks you is going to hurt.

In terms of swordmage powers, try to get as many out-of-turn powers as possible.

[Kurald Galain]

I find that if you're at all going to be spending any time on the front lines, starting with balanced NADs is way more important than an 18 in your attack stat,

This is incorrect. An 18 intelligence will give you +1 to all your attacks, and to damage, and to your best skills, and to AC, and to reflex. There's no way a +2 to some tertiary stat can compare to that.

You don't need four good defenses; nobody has four good defenses, and boosting your weakest defense always comes at the cost of weakening your strongest one.

Also, spending a feat on +1 AC (e.g. hide armor) is a waste; there are much better feats than that.

13 STR 12 DEX 16 CON 16 INT 14 WIS 8 CHA

Sorry, but for a swordmage|wizard this is a really bad choice. You don't need strength at all, and 14 wisdom instead of 12 makes only a marginal difference. Instead, spend your points on intelligence.

Str 10, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 20, Wis 11, Cha 8 is a highly effective combination. This is the standard "specialist array", and 4E always rewards specialization. If you think the 20 int is overkill, drop it to 19 and add a point to wis and con. Note that con and int go up by 1 at level 4, anyway.

Compare: FBS is spending 3 points on strength and a feat on getting +1 AC. I am putting those points in int, saving the feat for something better, and I still get +1 AC in addition to having +1 to hit, damage, reflex, and skills.

[Fox Box Socks]

The 13 Strength is for Hide Armor Proficiency, which requires 13 Str and 13 Con.

[Tankadin]

I'd recommend using the online-only builder at this point. Some of the backwards-compatible Essentials feats and powers are pretty damn nice.

The opt-fu here is strong, but honestly it might be worth your time to read thru some of the handbooks over in the CharOp forum at Wizards. The Swordmage|Warlock idea mentioned here was built over there as a sort of Darth Vader defender that looked like a blast to play. An...eldritch blast to play, that is. /sunglasses /yeaaaaaaaah

[Kurald Galain]

The 13 Strength is for Hide Armor Proficiency, which requires 13 Str and 13 Con.

Yes, and that's simply not a good feat. If you would put those points in Int instead, you'd get a +1 AC and save a feat for something better.

Honestly, +1 to-hit is a decent feat, +1 to anything else is a waste.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Apparently I need to change the thread's title I really liked the idea of a Swordmage| Warlock, a swordlock if you may (or a Warmage). In any case thanks for the suggestions. I will take them into account if I play a Swordmage|Wizard.

Also does anyone have more comment on the build I posted yesterday?

I was planning on ditching Mark of Passage (the DM ruled only humans could take it) and instead taking Intelligent Blade master. Also changing the hybrid talent from Shadow Walk, to Swordmage Warding, (personally I would like to have the option to take the pact boon; but meh whatever).

Also getting stealth trained.

[tcrudisi]

I find that if you're at all going to be spending any time on the front lines, starting with balanced NADs is way more important than an 18 in your attack stat, especially if you're going to be using a +3 proficiency weapon for half of your powers.

I disagree strongly with a Swordmage (or Wizard). I would rather start with a 20 which determines AC, Reflex, and to hit. A front-liner will get attacked via AC far more often than the other defenses, so that needs to be top-notch. Having one weak NAD won't be the end of the world. If this were an epic-level game, I'd be more inclined to agree with you, but since it's going to be 5 to 11ish, I'd definitely start with a 20 in Int.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I disagree strongly with a Swordmage (or Wizard). I would rather start with a 20 which determines AC, Reflex, and to hit. A front-liner will get attacked via AC far more often than the other defenses, so that needs to be top-notch. Having one weak NAD won't be the end of the world. If this were an epic-level game, I'd be more inclined to agree with you, but since it's going to be 5 to 11ish, I'd definitely start with a 20 in Int.

Just to be clear, I am not sure, the game will definitely run by those levels; but it may extend beyond that, possibly into epic.

[Kurald Galain]

Apparently I need to change the thread's title I really liked the idea of a Swordmage| Warlock, a swordlock if you may (or a Warmage).

Hm, that's a tricky combo.

My first suggestion would be to try the Hexblade (from HOFK), it's a warlord build that focuses on creating a magical sword and whacking people with that.

Just to be clear, I am not sure, the game will definitely run by those levels; but it may extend beyond that, possibly into epic.

At epic levels you can spare a feat or two to hedge up a poor defense, so the point remains that maxxing your primary attribute is a better investment than getting above-average values in all four defenses.

[MeeposFire]

I think you mean warlock.

I also believe starting with an excellent int is paramount for wizards and swordmages. You should go with an 18 post racial or better. It just does so much for you. Swordmages in particular can get lots of ways to mitigate low secondary stats.

[ShaggyMarco]

Having played a character of this nature I'll chime in:

You are doing lots of the things I did.

My suggestions:

Go human and take the mark of passage if you want...but wait a couple levels for it, you won't have a ton of teleportation just yet.

Human's biggest advantage is the extra at-will power. Take Eldritch Strike: it is a melee basic attack that works off of your Charisma, plus it slides the opponent 1. With a Staggering Weapon, this can be VERY entertaining. Because it is a melee basic attack, it saves you the trouble of picking up Intelligent Blademaster and can be used with your Aegis of Assault free attack.

Even though you are Aegis of Assault, your Strength is NOT important. You'll want 18 Intelligence and 16-17 Con to start off with. Put what you can into Cha, but there's no reason to spend time with Str, Dex, or Wis. Avoid Swordmage powers that key off of Str as a secondary stat and (obviously) Cha-based Warlock powers.

Honestly, I think using Hybrid Talent for the Infernal Tact boon will let you generate lots of temporary hit points, somewhat making up for your lower AC. Improved Dark One's blessing really keeps the THP flowing. If you are starting with the standard level 4, 5, and 6 items, taking Leather Armor of Dark Majesty for level 4 will go the rest of the way to keeping your AC pretty solid (against Cursed foes: which should be whomever is closest.)

Feats: White Lotus Riposte is really nice. Superior Weapon: Fullblade is also a great idea: big damage die, which you wanted, nice accuracy, and usable as an implement.

Between your Aegis, Hellish Rebuke, and White Lotus Riposte, your theme is putting opponents in "Damned if you do, damned if you don't!" situations. You'll be able to do decent damage, solid control, and even a bit of defending.

[Mando Knight]

Human's biggest advantage is the extra at-will power.

It's really not. Their encounter power replacement from HoFL is better, since it's essentially an inverse-Shield (+4 retroactive to-hit on a miss), which will likely come up a lot more than you actually using all three at-wills.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Actually going human to get Hellish Rebuke and therefor opening the boon pact is really tempting... I might go human just for that actually, the only problem I am seeing is that I am loosing the ability to make a MBA after a teleport.....

Here is another build that I just made

Spoiler

Show

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 5
Eladrin, Swordmage|Warlock
Swordmage Aegis (Hybrid): Aegis of Assault
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Infernal Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Swordmage Warding
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Constitution
Background: Arcane Agent (Stealth class skill)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 16, Dex 15, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 16, Dex 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 8.


AC: 16 Fort: 15 Reflex: 17 Will: 14
HP: 49 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 12

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +8, Insight +7, Stealth +9, Arcana +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +5, Heal +2, History +8, Intimidate +1, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +6, Streetwise +1, Thievery +4

FEATS
Level 1: Intelligent Blademaster
Level 2: Eladrin Swordmage Advance
Level 4: Hybrid Talent

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Eldritch Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Sword Burst
Hybrid encounter 1: Lightning Clash
Hybrid daily 1: Armor of Agathys
Hybrid utility 2: Ethereal Stride
Hybrid encounter 3: Fiery Bolt
Hybrid daily 5: Swordmage Shielding Fire

ITEMS
Leather Armor of Dark Majesty +1
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

[ShaggyMarco]

It's really not. Their encounter power replacement from HoFL is better, since it's essentially an inverse-Shield (+4 retroactive to-hit on a miss), which will likely come up a lot more than you actually using all three at-wills.

I agree, in general. For this build though, being able to have Hellish Rebuke (so you can take the Pact Boon) and Eldritch Strike (letting you do a MBA+slide, and saving you a feat on Intelligent Blademaster) is really better than the inverse shield.

Your millage may vary.

FEATS
Level 1: Intelligent Blademaster

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Eldritch Strike

You probably don't need Intelligent Blademaster if you are also taking Eldritch Strike. This frees you up a feat.