[3.5] Thrower build

[The Rabbler]

I've been wanting to make a thrower for a while and, after a sudden rush of productivity, I now have the time to make one. I've looked around at some of the popular classes and PrCs and so far, all I've done is debate the merits of each class/PrC. So, playground, can you help me make my thrower? Bonus points if it gets skirmish without having to give up a full attack.

all sources available and my scores are 18,16,16,14,13,12.

[Chuckthedwarf]

I've been wanting to make a thrower for a while and, after a sudden rush of productivity, I now have the time to make one. I've looked around at some of the popular classes and PrCs and so far, all I've done is debate the merits of each class/PrC. So, playground, can you help me make my thrower? Bonus points if it gets skirmish without having to give up a full attack.

all sources available and my scores are 18,16,16,14,13,12.

One PrC to rule them all: Master Thrower.
Unless you're Large and into throwing really huge things. Or Bloodstorm Blade, but you're not REALLY a thrower when you're tossing 2 hand axes and having them bounce off a million people then hitting them again in the face with the same axe in the same round.

If you go Master Thrower, one of the fastest ways to get there is 5 fighter.

You get bonus feats for whatever you want and you'll need 3 feats to qualify for Master Thrower so the more the merrier.

Main ability should be Strength- not that it will matter that much by level 10, but you'll be able to smack someone in the head without throwing. Dexterity works too, but you'll be a bit more limited in respect to melee.

You don't really need anything beyond that - although high Con obviously helps.

Now, feats.

You need Weapon Proficiency in a thrown weapon - I personally prefer to pick those you can use as a melee weapon without any penalties, like Spear. Lighter weapons work too.

Then you'll need Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot - fairly useful feats and you need 'em to qualify.

Now, this is the reason why fighter is probably the best class to enter Master Thrower. To be absolutely awesome, you will need quite a few feats - 3 more feats by level 10, at the least, and I'd recommend another 1 as well.

Power Attack. Helpful in melee ( and that's why I prefer thrown-melee weapons like Spear) and a requirement for a great feat.

Brutal Throw. Lets you use Str for thrown attacks.

Thrown (or Ranged?) Power Attack. Lets you trade 1 BAB for 1 damage when using thrown weapons, Brutal Throw and Power Attack are prerequisites.

Far Shot and Rapid Shot are useful feats as well, the former letting you attack farther targets with your thrown spears and the latter granting you another ranged attack.

Now, back to Master Thrower.

Full BAB. Decent Health (d10 or d8, I forget). 5 levels...

You get Quick Draw at level 1 of the prc for free, just as your BAB hits 6.
At every odd level you get a thrown weapon trick - up to 3 by level 5.
There are other benefits - like free Improved Critical with thrown weapons you have Weapon Focus with at level 5.

Some tricks are more useful then others - look them up yourself.

One trick you REALLY want can only be taken at level 5 of Master Thrower - Weak Spot. It lets you forego adding Str to damage on your thrown attacks to make them ranged TOUCH attacks!

And that's where full BAB, ranged power attack, and feats like Rapid Shot come in. You trade your entire BAB for damage and throw your spears or whatever with very high chances of hitting.

Then there's Two-Weapon Fighting if you want to get into it. Just make sure to get Weapon Focus with whatever weapons you might wanna use for offhand else you won't be able to use tricks.

There's also a trick that lets you throw 2 of lighter thrown weapons (like shuriken, knives, etc) as one attack with a single attack roll (you have to forego str to damage though), but I'm not sure if Power Attack would apply only once or twice. Precision damage would only apply once, but Power attack isn't precision damage... If you wanna go that way, discuss with your DM because down that rode some serious damage lies.

Assuming Thrown Power Attack works for each thrown weapon for purposes of the above trick, at 20, with full Two-Weapon Fighting you'll be easily doing 40 + 2x weapon damage + 2x whatever enchants per attack roll with high chances of hitting, say, Tarassque. And at full BAB, that's 7 attacks without considering Rapid Shot or Haste. Or crits. (And there's a trick for that, too)
That's like 3 rounds, tops, to kill Tarrasque solely by yourself - or at least to get it as close to being dead as it can be without Wish.

Books: Complete Adventurer, Complete Warrior. And the PHB.

[tonberrian]

I'm a fan of mixing Warblade, Fighter, Bloodstorm Blade 4 (for full attacks with thrown weapons), Master Thrower, Swordsage, and Swashbuckler together in some fashion for quad-wielding knives to kill things dead. You could also use BsB and Master Thrower coupled with the Boomerang Daze feat from I want to say Races of Eberron to make a very feasible control fighter. Finally, there's a Psychic Warrior power somewhere (Races of Stone?) that lets you make full attacks with thrown weapons, so you can go that route as well.

[Amnestic]

Boomerang Daze feat from I want to say Races of Eberron

It is. Races of Eberron, pg. 108.

[TurtleKing]

What no one has mentioned the Hulking Hurler yet? Throw insanely large/ heavy objects to crush any in your way? Though do be careful you may have to check what your AC is in regards to DM throwing at you.

[The Rabbler]

I'm reluctant to take fighter. I'm aware that many feats are necessary for a thrower, but I'd rather have a base class that offers something to the build beyond faster playability.

for this, I was thinking scout, factotum, or warblade (I'm perfectly willing to play a bloodstorm blade). I like the idea of skirmish damage on top of touch attacks, but I don't like giving up the full attacks. I like factoti for the pure skillmonkey-ness and the option of throwing around iaijutusu focus damage after laying down a grease spell. I like warblade because it allows me to still have options in melee and gives me access to the bloodstorm blade.

I'm a fan of mixing Warblade, Fighter, Bloodstorm Blade 4 (for full attacks with thrown weapons), Master Thrower, Swordsage, and Swashbuckler together in some fashion for quad-wielding knives to kill things dead. You could also use BsB and Master Thrower coupled with the Boomerang Daze feat from I want to say Races of Eberron to make a very feasible control fighter. Finally, there's a Psychic Warrior power somewhere (Races of Stone?) that lets you make full attacks with thrown weapons, so you can go that route as well.

This looks fun. This is the kind of thing I was looking for. The only problem is that I don't know how much to take of all of the classes.

What no one has mentioned the Hulking Hurler yet? Throw insanely large/ heavy objects to crush any in your way? Though do be careful you may have to check what your AC is in regards to DM throwing at you.

no. because no.

[tonberrian]

I'll come back tomorrow and give you the full run down as I remember it, but I have to be getting to sleep now.

[Saint GoH]

Seems like I've posted this build more then once, but oh well I have it memorized by heart now anyway.

Spoiler

Show

Human, 2 flaws

Level 1| Rogue
Level 2| Fighter (ACF)
Level 3| Swordsage
Level 4| Rogue
Level 5| Fighter (ACF)
Level 6| Rogue
Level 7| Invisible Blade
Level 8| Master Thrower
Level 9| Master Thrower
Level 10| Master Thrower
Level 11| Master Thrower
Level 12| Master Thrower

As a side note, use fractional BaB to make up for the weak BaB of the rogue and Swordsage, should end up with an 11 BaB doing that (3rogue+1Swordsage= +3 using fractions, +2 fighter, +5 Master Thrower +1 Invisblade = +11).

Take Point Blank, Far Shot, Precise Shot, and TWF first level. 2nd level take "Targeteer" ACF for Fighter (skills change slightly, bonus feats usable only from a certain list) from Dragon mag 310, pg 39. You get 2 free Exotic weapon choices as a targeteer so choose Drow Long Knife from Eberron, bonus feat choose Vital Aim (Dex to damage on ranged attacks). Another option is "Hit and Run Fighter" from Drow of the Underdark though I have heard these two ACF's have issues stacking. 3rd level is Swordsage, take Shadowblade from ToB for an additional Dex to damage when using a dagger (Drow long knife counts as a dagger can also just use reg daggers if you don't wanna twist the wording). Only noticeable point beyond that is 7th lvl where I went invisible blade (complete warrior) for another sneak attack dice, can change as necessary though I find this to be a great class to finish off with.

Make sure to grab ImpTWF, Craven, and Assassin's stance at some point.

For the Master Thrower levels, you want Palm Throw, Trip Shot, and Weak Spot as your tricks. This makes you throw 2 daggers per attack roll, trip opponents using dex with a +4 each time you hit, and hit targets touch AC respectively (losing STR to damage, but we currently have 2-3 +Dex to damage so I'm not concerned).

Pick up a rogue vest for another SA of sneak attack, bringing the total up to 6d6 at lvl 12. Mantle of the Hunter (i think its called) from MiC also gives a d6 of SA and is probably something to consider.

What does this all mean? Assuming you have a 22 dex at level 12 (that's what I had), you do d6+19+6d6+12 PER ATTACK to flat-footed enemies with no magical enhancements yet. Remember you throw 2 daggers per attack (with Palm Throw), and Palm Throw states you deal damage for both daggers, so one attack essentially nets you 2*(d6+19+6d6+12). ImpTWF and BaB of 11 should get you 5 attacks, and with Palm Throw thats 10*(d6+19+6d6+12) = 550ish average damage. Per. Round. You are welcome.

Have fun, and get books thrown at you

[The Rabbler]

Seems like I've posted this build more then once, but oh well I have it memorized by heart now anyway.

Spoiler

Show

Human, 2 flaws

Level 1| Rogue
Level 2| Fighter (ACF)
Level 3| Swordsage
Level 4| Rogue
Level 5| Fighter (ACF)
Level 6| Rogue
Level 7| Invisible Blade
Level 8| Master Thrower
Level 9| Master Thrower
Level 10| Master Thrower
Level 11| Master Thrower
Level 12| Master Thrower

As a side note, use fractional BaB to make up for the weak BaB of the rogue and Swordsage, should end up with an 11 BaB doing that (3rogue+1Swordsage= +3 using fractions, +2 fighter, +5 Master Thrower +1 Invisblade = +11).

Take Point Blank, Far Shot, Precise Shot, and TWF first level. 2nd level take "Targeteer" ACF for Fighter (skills change slightly, bonus feats usable only from a certain list) from Dragon mag 310, pg 39. You get 2 free Exotic weapon choices as a targeteer so choose Drow Long Knife from Eberron, bonus feat choose Vital Aim (Dex to damage on ranged attacks). Another option is "Hit and Run Fighter" from Drow of the Underdark though I have heard these two ACF's have issues stacking. 3rd level is Swordsage, take Shadowblade from ToB for an additional Dex to damage when using a dagger (Drow long knife counts as a dagger can also just use reg daggers if you don't wanna twist the wording). Only noticeable point beyond that is 7th lvl where I went invisible blade (complete warrior) for another sneak attack dice, can change as necessary though I find this to be a great class to finish off with.

Make sure to grab ImpTWF, Craven, and Assassin's stance at some point.

For the Master Thrower levels, you want Palm Throw, Trip Shot, and Weak Spot as your tricks. This makes you throw 2 daggers per attack roll, trip opponents using dex with a +4 each time you hit, and hit targets touch AC respectively (losing STR to damage, but we currently have 2-3 +Dex to damage so I'm not concerned).

Pick up a rogue vest for another SA of sneak attack, bringing the total up to 6d6 at lvl 12. Mantle of the Hunter (i think its called) from MiC also gives a d6 of SA and is probably something to consider.

What does this all mean? Assuming you have a 22 dex at level 12 (that's what I had), you do d6+19+6d6+12 PER ATTACK to flat-footed enemies with no magical enhancements yet. Remember you throw 2 daggers per attack (with Palm Throw), and Palm Throw states you deal damage for both daggers, so one attack essentially nets you 2*(d6+19+6d6+12). ImpTWF and BaB of 11 should get you 5 attacks, and with Palm Throw thats 10*(d6+19+6d6+12) = 550ish average damage. Per. Round. You are welcome.

Have fun, and get books thrown at you

Wow. Just wow.

[Saint GoH]

Smell some hefty amounts of Cheddar yet?

[The Rabbler]

Smell some hefty amounts of Cheddar yet?

not quite. slap that onto the other half of a dragonwrought desert kobold loredrake spellhoarding sorcerer gestalt and you've got cheddar. Your build is more of a... pepper jack; still technically cheese, but more spicy than cheesy.

still, thanks. I might just show this to my group and threaten them with it, should they criticize my current under-optimized character too much.