What happens when your damage roll is negative

[j4bberw0ck]

My party and the DM were very confused when we encountered a pugwampi. Its damage was 1d2-4 we wondered how on earth it could be a threat?

[WarKitty]

All attacks that hit do a minimum of 1 damage before damage reduction.

[slaydemons]

It always does one damage if it hits past your AC no matter I believe but it can also have special abilities

[j4bberw0ck]

Thank you very much that clears that up

[Typewriter]

Minimum 1. What's funny is what happens if you crit?

I dealt -2 damage, but since it's a crit I dealt 4!

[DeltaEmil]

You multiply the number of dices and then roll them, you don't multiply the result from the rolls. So in the case of 1d2-4 on a critical becomes 2d2-8, the end result still only making 1 damage total... Being that weak and using such a low damage dice is of course quite negative...

[Percival]

Yeah, I don't see why NEGATIVES to your damage would be multiplied in that fashion. Critting would not make you do less damage. 1d2-4 and 2d2-8 could both only ever do 1 damage. I don't see how this is in the slightest bit relevant, though, the lowest any player character should ever be doing is 1d3, and that's only if you're small-sized with a dagger or medium and swinging unarmed (neither of these situations should have such god-awful strength)

[Yora]

The information only becomes important if that creature is affected by magical effects or gets more hit dice, in which case it's important to know what the basic damage dice and damage modifier are.

[Arillius]

lol I critted, but I still only do 1 point of damage. Thats awful.

[Tyndmyr]

That's when you know you either need more strength or to give up on melee.

[kc0bbq]

It all comes down to whether or not you use the minimum damage rules. I think it's better to use minimum 0, because otherwise housecats kill low level magic users once per round.

[WarKitty]

The Pugwampi isn't really supposed to be a major melee threat. They're supposed to be tricksters that cause mayhem and bad luck. They're an annoyance that you can't quite get rid of.

[Starbuck_II]

In Pathfinder, the damage is minimum 1 nonlethal, but in D&D 3.5 it is minimum 1 lethal.

[The Cat Goddess]

It all comes down to whether or not you use the minimum damage rules. I think it's better to use minimum 0, because otherwise housecats kill low level magic users once per round.

What better way to keep them from becoming high level magic users and borking up your campaign?

[Typewriter]

What's the lowest (theoretical)possible damage imaginable?

If you have a Scythe for a small creature it's only 1d6. If you use the psionic power that reduces your size by two categories I think that would take it down to 1d3. Get your strength reduced as low as possible, possibly even using stat damage.

1d3-5 20x4
4d3-20 = -16 damage(minimum 1)

Could you go lower?

[cd4]

I can improve the numbers and make it a fixed value. A light pick deals 1d3 base as a small size. Shrink to diminutive and it deals 1 damage. It still has the x4 critical of the scythe. Use Diamond Nightmare Blade you deal x4 damage on the strike. Also reducing strength to 1 gives -5 so the final calculation is (1-5)x7 = -28 damage (min 1).

I'm not sure but I think there is a way to get the critical increased by 1 through magic but that would only help if it wasn't an enchantment to the weapon. If it is an enchantment then the damage is (1+1-5)x8 = -24 (min 1) (due to the +1 needed to give the weapon a property) but if it is a spell then the damage is (1-5)x8 = -32 (min 1).

[Chuckthedwarf]

Nothing happens, you just do 1 damage.

Unless you have massive sneak attack dies, which you totally should in that case.

Nothing better then a diminutive character flying into someone else's square and using Underfoot Tactics/ That other thing from RotW to do sneak attack damage on every hit.

Or shoot a cute tiny bow into your eye, dealing full sneak attack damage.

Totally like the gallivespians from Amber Spyglass (His Dark Materials) - tiny and deadly!

As for critical damage, frankly I don't know. It would make sense for critical damage to actually do more damage then usual no matter the case - but the usual damage is 1 only thanks to the "can't go below 1" rule. So you hit so weak you barely do any damage at all... Meh.

[Typewriter]

Nothing happens, you just do 1 damage.

Unless you have massive sneak attack dies, which you totally should in that case.

Nothing better then a diminutive character flying into someone else's square and using Underfoot Tactics/ That other thing from RotW to do sneak attack damage on every hit.

Or shoot a cute tiny bow into your eye, dealing full sneak attack damage.

Totally like the gallivespians from Amber Spyglass (His Dark Materials) - tiny and deadly!

As for critical damage, frankly I don't know. It would make sense for critical damage to actually do more damage then usual no matter the case - but the usual damage is 1 only thanks to the "can't go below 1" rule. So you hit so weak you barely do any damage at all... Meh.

Which means that if you went far into the negatives on a crit, the crit would negate your SA dice as well.

Example: Damage -2, on a crit -4
Roll 1d6 SA, 4

Total damage (0)(Minimum 1). If you hadn't have crit, the SA damage would have brought you up to 2!

[The Glyphstone]

Which means that if you went far into the negatives on a crit, the crit would negate your SA dice as well.

Example: Damage -2, on a crit -4
Roll 1d6 SA, 4

Total damage (0)(Minimum 1). If you hadn't have crit, the SA damage would have brought you up to 2!

Sneak Attack and other bonus dice aren't multiplied on a crit, though, which could be extended to a rule that such dice are ignored entirely for purposes of criticals and added on afterwards. If you do 1d2-4 and have 2d6 SA, a crit by this interpretation wouldn't do (2d2+2d6-8), it'd do (2d2-8)+2d6. Even if your damage was 1d2-9001, you'd roll that and get minimum 1 (or 2d2-18002 on a crit), then add your 2d6 sneak attack after.

[Typewriter]

Sneak Attack and other bonus dice aren't multiplied on a crit, though, which could be extended to a rule that such dice are ignored entirely for purposes of criticals and added on afterwards. If you do 1d2-4 and have 2d6 SA, a crit by this interpretation wouldn't do (2d2+2d6-8), it'd do (2d2-8)+2d6. Even if your damage was 1d2-9001, you'd roll that and get minimum 1 (or 2d2-18002 on a crit), then add your 2d6 sneak attack after.

Yeah, that's why I added the SA damage after the multiplier.

Do you add SA before or after rounding up to 1? That's the important question:

Crit damage: -4

SA damage: +4

Final damage: 0(Minimum 1) or 5(Minimum 1 from damage, +4 from crit)?

[DeltaEmil]

Sneak Attack is independent of critical rolls and strength modifiers.

If you roll 4 damage for sneak attack, and -4 on a critical hit (which becomes 1), you deal 5 damage total.

[prufock]

I'm fairly sure ability penalties aren't multiplied on a critical.

A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together.

Emphasis mine. So 1d2-4 should be 2d2-4, not -8. Which still ends up being the 1 minimum.

[Typewriter]

I'm fairly sure ability penalties aren't multiplied on a critical.



Emphasis mine. So 1d2-4 should be 2d2-4, not -8. Which still ends up being the 1 minimum.

That's true, and actually, looking it up, you don't add negative numbers from STR to damage. It says you add bonuses, and a bonus is defined as a positive modifier, where as a penalty is a negative modifier.

That's....weird.

[Enix18]

I can't believe none of you guys know the rules! Negative damage heals your opponents, obviously.

[Zherog]

That's true, and actually, looking it up, you don't add negative numbers from STR to damage. It says you add bonuses, and a bonus is defined as a positive modifier, where as a penalty is a negative modifier.

That's....weird.

I'd be interested as to where your quote comes from. From the Ability Scores section of the SRD (and presumably at the beginning of the PHB where it defines abilities):

You apply your character’s Strength modifier to:

* Melee attack rolls.
* Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown weapon (including a sling). (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only one-half the character’s Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive one and a half times the Strength bonus. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.)
* Climb, Jump, and Swim checks. These are the skills that have Strength as their key ability.
* Strength checks (for breaking down doors and the like).

There's still the weirdly worded exceptions for off-hand and two-hand, though.

[Apophis775]

My party and the DM were very confused when we encountered a pugwampi. Its damage was 1d2-4 we wondered how on earth it could be a threat?

You apply the damage as negative energy.

Above 0 is positive energy, below zero is negative energy


Sry, I's trollin :D