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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    So, I was driving around today, and I had an idea.

    Take rules for creating magical traps:



    Touch: A touch trigger, which springs the trap when touched, is one of the simplest kinds of trigger to construct. This trigger may be physically attached to the part of the mechanism that deals the damage or it may not. You can make a magic touch trigger by adding alarm to the trap and reducing the area of the effect to cover only the trigger spot.

    Magic Device Trap Cost

    Building a magic device trap involves the expenditure of experience points as well as gold pieces, and requires the services of a spellcaster. Table: Cost Modifiers for Magic Device Traps summarizes the cost information for magic device traps. If the trap uses more than one spell (for instance, a sound or visual trigger spell in addition to the main spell effect), the builder must pay for them all (except alarm, which is free unless it must be cast by an NPC; see below).

    The costs derived from Table: Cost Modifiers for Magic Device Traps assume that the builder is casting the necessary spells himself (or perhaps some other PC is providing the spells for free). If an NPC spellcaster must be hired to cast them those costs must be factored in as well.

    Automatic Reset Trap:
    Each spell used in trap:
    +500 gp x caster level x spell level,
    +40 XP x caster level x spell level



    Now: Viola, our trap:

    Legoman's Leet Longbow Lure
    Spells used:
    Alarm (Free)
    Range: Touch.

    True Strike (CL 1, Level 1 Spell)

    Trap Type: Automatic Reset (Magical)
    Cost: 500 gp, 40xp
    Target: A small gem, placed in the grip of a longbow.

    Translation:

    Once your wizard gets to caster level 3, take the craft wondrous item feat. Spend 500 gp and 40xp for each weapon your party owns.

    Have party press the trapped gem before each shot.

    Never miss again.

    Use with any spell combo you want.

    Mage Armor + Shield.
    Bull's Strength + Haste.
    Mirror Image.
    Invisibility


  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Jack_Simth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Cheese, definately cheese. Guidelines, a command-word item of True Strike would cost 1800 gp... and that's considered broken, in and of itself.

    For even more cheese, try a proximity trigger on the quiver; every time you reach in to pull an arrow..... and you can sell the bow later, with no problems.

    Cheese. Definately cheese.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Except for the part where traps are stationary, seems great! Maybe you could have a buff station inside your mode of transportation, for example...

    The higher level spells, where it will really benefit the caster to not have to cast them, would get a lot more expensive.

    So nothing broken, since it's stationary, and you just can't carry your wagon through the dungeon can you? (Or go inside it...)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Quote Originally Posted by NullAshton
    Except for the part where traps are stationary, seems great! Maybe you could have a buff station inside your mode of transportation, for example...

    The higher level spells, where it will really benefit the caster to not have to cast them, would get a lot more expensive.

    So nothing broken, since it's stationary, and you just can't carry your wagon through the dungeon can you? (Or go inside it...)
    You trap your weapon.

  5. - Top - End - #5

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    I've seen one shot glyph traps used to store cure spells, then scribed behind enemy barricades and such for on the spot healing, but nothing this cheesy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger View Post
    Trust me, Ikkitosen knows what he's talking about.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    The trap is the caster ... personal range buffs aren't going to work. Still a cute trick though.


  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?

    Okay, yeah, you're going to put a trap on your weapon.

    While we're at it, let's go ahead and put OFFENSIVE traps on the blade of our swords! A nice energy drain trap, for 2d4 negative levels every time you touch your opponent! Yippie!

    Or, wail of the banshee, specially crafted so that the wielder is immune! Activate it on touch too! Woohoo, 27 DC save-or-die every time you thwack your opponent!

    Nevermind the fact that a trap tends to be immobile, like in the roof.

    As you can plainly see, traps were meant to be stationary, or mostly so. Like for example, a heavy chest. There's nothing wrong with a healing trap, like a 'buffing center' in your party's mode of transportation.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    I'm thinking of the applications for the kings castle. Trap the top of the wall with this. Every 5 foot square now gives each person standing on it +20 to hit each and every round.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy
    I'm thinking of the applications for the kings castle. Trap the top of the wall with this. Every 5 foot square now gives each person standing on it +20 to hit each and every round.
    Heal is a good one too for that. And perhaps a high level anti-evil spell as well.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    As you can plainly see, traps were meant to be stationary, or mostly so. Like for example, a heavy chest. There's nothing wrong with a healing trap, like a 'buffing center' in your party's mode of transportation.
    You miss the point of "stationary". The trap itself does not move, but what it is attached to does. Obviously. Otherwise you couldn't cast it on anything, since everything is in motion relative to something else. That heavy chest can be picked up and carried around. The roof can be torn off in a storm. Both hurtle through space as they rotate around the sun and the planet's axis, etc.

    So, yes, it works on spells that let you target other things (True Strike only works on the caster, so that is out.) Drain Life would give hit points to the sword, which doesn't make sense, but it could still deal damage. Essentially it is just poor planning in the game. Nothing new there, thought the particular loop hole was cleverly found.
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    Logic Ninja : Oh my god that was beautiful. Man. I... wow. This thread can be locked now, Wehrkind won it. Here
    "We know Elvis is dead for any relevant values of certain." - BWL
    I am now offering conversion to my Church of Stabiclese, Neutral God of Buffing Up and Whacking Things, Regardless of Facing. All those who love either "Buffing Up" or "Whacking Things" and don't particularly care about which direction the target is facing at the time are welcome!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Yeah, so you're going to have to go in and out of the trapped area again to get the benefits.

    ...if you think that personal effect spells are game, I have something for you. It's called dimension door. And teleporting 400 feet or more into the bottom of a nearby volcano. BELOW THE MAGMA. Enjoy 20d6 every round while you get back up to the surface, no save.

    Heal works fine, though. Though, why the heck would you do that? "Yeah, I spend billions of gold pieces making healing stations on the walls so that my level 2 fighters can instantly heal themselves..."

    And besides, this is for PLAYER CHARACTERS. Not NPCs. Player characters, you can just send them through a dungeon. People only go inside their mode of transportation/place to sleep away from the wind and rain after the encounters for the day. And what kind of cleric doesn't heal them with all remaining spell slots before sleeping? "Um... yeah... I didn't prepare any cure spells and I already used every single spell I had to nuke the enemy... sorry..." Byebye cleric. One of the balancing features of clerics, in fact, they actually HAVE to save spell slots because they have to heal the party...

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Um the point of making the wall heal your troops is that it resets every round and goes off every round. So you have to 1 hit each and every guy to clear that wall.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Jack_Simth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Well, one round them, anyway.

    Turns south fast, though, if an opponent manages to end up on your walls.....
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    But if they're undead...

    Actually, I think I have a better idea.

    Automatically Resetting Magical Trap (Pointy Stick of Celestial Owl Spam)
    Trigger: Detect Evil (500 gp)
    Effect: Summons 38 Celestial Owls in a 3x3x4 block + 2 squares in front of the tip of the stick [Summon Monster I x38] (500 * 38 = 19000 gp)
    Total Cost: 19500 gp and 1560 xp

    CR: There's two CR components to this trap. First, the Summons are triggered by the Detect Evil, so they're treated as two different traps. The Detect Evil component has a CR of 1, and the Summons component has a CR of 10.

    So, basically, when you don't want this to go off, you can keep it in a sheath made of 1 inch of metal. When fighting's going on, you can pull it out, and it'll summon 38 Celestial Owls per round to Aid Another. A medium creature on the ground has 16 squares contacting it (assuming there's a 5' cushion all around and it's in melee against a medium creature). With a 75% chance of hitting AC 10, the owls will grant an average of +24 to the next attack, or +24 to AC.

    Oh, and 38 more owls are coming the next round. And the round after. And the round after that, and the round after that, and the round after that, and...


    An alternative would be the following:
    Gatling Gun of Anti-Evil
    Trigger: Detect Evil (500gp)
    Effect: 20x Magic Missiles at the nearest evil creature (10000gp)
    Total Cost: 10500 gp and 800 XP

    Get two of them, deal an average of 140 damage per round as a free action to the nearest evil creature. :D

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    The idea is pure cheese...

    But the idea that it's cheese because traps don't move is pure bunk.

    I submit, for your movable trap pleasure - Fire Trap. Castable on any openable object... such as the always popular target - A spell book. And they tend to get moved around quite a bit.

    Still - it's a very cheesy idea. :)

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?

    And for a buff trap:

    Sugar, Spice, and Everything Level 1 and 2 That's Nice
    Automatic Reset, Rock
    Total Cost: 45,000 gp (11250 per person if split 4 ways) and 3600 XP
    Trigger: Touch
    Effects, in the following order:
    Bear's Endurance (3,000g)
    Bull's Strength (3,000g)
    Cat's Grace (3,000g)
    Eagle's Splendor (3,000g)
    Fox's Cunning (3,000g)
    Owl's Wisdom (3,000g)
    Darkvision (3,000g)
    Spider Climb (3,000g)
    Blur (3,000g)
    Aid (3,000g)
    Delay Poison (3,000g)
    Lesser Restoration (3,000g)
    Barkskin (3,000g)
    Cure Light Wounds (500g)
    Protection from Chaos (500g)
    Protection from Evil (500g)
    Protection from Good (500g)
    Protection from Law (500g)
    Shield of Faith (500g)
    Hide from Undead (500g)
    Hide from Animals (500g)
    Enlarge Person [Fort save DC12] (500g)
    Reduce Person [Fort save DC12] (500g)
    Endure Elements (500g)
    Remove Fear (500g)


    For comparison, an item of +4 enhancement to a stat costs 16000.

    Moral of the story: DMs should not allow PCs to mess with trap creation.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Strange that they bothered to have a good balancing factor for mechanical traps, the CR being a pricing multiplier, which they completely left out for magic traps.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Banned
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    That's cause its magic, silly!

    Also, I would totally do this, but i'm the most experienced player in a group of newbies, and they wouldn't understand why it was funny.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelc View Post
    And for a buff trap:

    Sugar, Spice, and Everything Level 1 and 2 That's Nice
    Automatic Reset, Rock
    Total Cost: 45,000 gp (11250 per person if split 4 ways) and 3600 XP
    Trigger: Touch
    Effects, in the following order:
    Bear's Endurance (3,000g)
    Bull's Strength (3,000g)
    Cat's Grace (3,000g)
    Eagle's Splendor (3,000g)
    Fox's Cunning (3,000g)
    Owl's Wisdom (3,000g)
    Darkvision (3,000g)
    Spider Climb (3,000g)
    Blur (3,000g)
    Aid (3,000g)
    Delay Poison (3,000g)
    Lesser Restoration (3,000g)
    Barkskin (3,000g)
    Cure Light Wounds (500g)
    Protection from Chaos (500g)
    Protection from Evil (500g)
    Protection from Good (500g)
    Protection from Law (500g)
    Shield of Faith (500g)
    Hide from Undead (500g)
    Hide from Animals (500g)
    Enlarge Person [Fort save DC12] (500g)
    Reduce Person [Fort save DC12] (500g)
    Endure Elements (500g)
    Remove Fear (500g)


    For comparison, an item of +4 enhancement to a stat costs 16000.

    Moral of the story: DMs should not allow PCs to mess with trap creation.
    Enlarge and reduce? that seems pointless.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Banned
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Make the Fort save for the one you don't want - i.e. want to be bigger? make the DC 12 fort save for the reduce person spell. Want to be smaller? make the DC 12 fort save for the enlarge person spell. Fail the save? Try again next round.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Artemician's Avatar

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    This reminds me of the "Stimpacks" that one of my friends drew up for a joke game session.

    Basically, it was a collection of fine arrows of Spell Storing arranged in the form of a jab. He dumped his spare spells of the day into them, and when he needed them, he would just poke himself.

    Ah... that's the stuff

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Another fun thing to do with traps:
    Trap spells such as fire trap or explosive runes theoretically have infinite stacking; since they last until triggered you could put it an infinite amount of times on the same object. And the only cost is spell slots.
    Cast Explosive Runes on a rock a few hundred times, and you have an item that will utterly destroy anything(that isn't an epic/divine being with an insane amount of hitpoints) within a 10-foot radius when activated...
    The Resistance character:
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    Uthlas-Reth
    Male CG Grey Elf Wizard 1/Archivist 2, Level 3, Init +3, HP 17/17, Speed
    AC 12, Touch 12, Flat-footed 9, Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +5, Base Attack Bonus 1
    Lt. Crossbow +4 (1d8, 19-20x2)
    5-ft burst Fiery burst DC 17 Reflex (2d6, -)
    Quarterstaff -1 (1d6-2, 20x2)
    (+3 Dex, -1 Misc)
    Abilities Str 6, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 8
    Condition None

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gbprime's Avatar

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelc View Post
    And for a buff trap:

    Sugar, Spice, and Everything Level 1 and 2 That's Nice
    Automatic Reset, Rock
    Total Cost: 45,000 gp (11250 per person if split 4 ways) and 3600 XP
    Trigger: Touch
    Effects, in the following order:
    Bear's Endurance (3,000g)
    Bull's Strength (3,000g)
    Cat's Grace (3,000g)
    Eagle's Splendor (3,000g)
    Fox's Cunning (3,000g)
    Owl's Wisdom (3,000g)
    Darkvision (3,000g)
    Spider Climb (3,000g)
    Blur (3,000g)
    Aid (3,000g)
    Delay Poison (3,000g)
    Lesser Restoration (3,000g)
    Barkskin (3,000g)
    Cure Light Wounds (500g)
    Protection from Chaos (500g)
    Protection from Evil (500g)
    Protection from Good (500g)
    Protection from Law (500g)
    Shield of Faith (500g)
    Hide from Undead (500g)
    Hide from Animals (500g)
    Enlarge Person [Fort save DC12] (500g)
    Reduce Person [Fort save DC12] (500g)
    Endure Elements (500g)
    Remove Fear (500g)


    For comparison, an item of +4 enhancement to a stat costs 16000.

    Moral of the story: DMs should not allow PCs to mess with trap creation.
    This is why Reciprocal Gyre is always in my spell book.
    .
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    Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens

    Oh, and DFTBA.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gbprime's Avatar

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    I did do something like this to the players once. They were trying to get through a fortified wall blocking off a narrow cave mouth, and the defenders on top had a reusable trap they could hit which gave them Protection from Arrows and False Life. Nasty little choke point for a 6th level party, but they got it and HELD it. Boy did they appreciate that reusable False life later.

    Being PC's they tried to take the flagstone with the glyph in it. they lost it later when their boat sank. It was too heavy for their bag of holding. On purpose.
    .
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    Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens

    Oh, and DFTBA.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Sounds like Warlocks with Voracious Dispelling just got a whole lot more dangerous ...

    EDIT: Apparently someone triggered the threadomancy trap (resetting every year). I'm not sure whether or not it's weirder that I didn't notice that, or the fact that I remembered that "stimpack" idea two years later...
    Last edited by Telonius; 2010-07-26 at 02:51 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Of course your character making an automatically resetting True Strike trap attachable to your weapon (or any of the other traps mentioned in this thread) could end up blowing the "Gentlemen's Agreement" out of the water.

    If one of my players showed me something like this, I'd immediately start humming "Anything you can do, I can do better".

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    I'm thinking of the applications for the kings castle. Trap the top of the wall with this. Every 5 foot square now gives each person standing on it +20 to hit each and every round.
    Wait...
    Is this thread from 2006 the seed for the Tippyverse?

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Sinfonian's Avatar

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    It would seem this thread has the dubious honor of having been necro'ed on two separate occasions.
    Fair warning: I edit my posts fairly continuously, sometimes adding substantial amounts in the period immediately after I post originally. I blame grad school instilling a constant need to revise.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'

    In the long run, spell turrets (DMG2) would be cheaper. You throw four different spells of different schools into one, which fire in sequence each round before resetting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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