[3.5] Dual kukri warblade build

[Sith_Happens]

I finally got into my first D&D 3.5 campaign, and I'll be playing a Warblade using two kukris with Stormguard Warrior. The campaign starts at level 1, but since I'm an obsessive character builder I've planned out the character through 20. Here's what I've got at the moment:

Generic Shonen Protagonist (definitely some RP gold to be found here)
Warblade 6/Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Bloodclaw Master 2/Warblade +3/Fighter 1/Warblade +7

Human: Leap of the Heavens
1: Two-Weapon Fighting
3: Martial Study [Mountain Hammer]
Warblade 5: Iron Heart Aura
6: Stormguard Warrior
9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Warblade 9: Combat Reflexes
12: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Fighter 1: Robilar's Gambit
15: Double Hit
Warblade 13: Improved Initiative
18: Martial Study [Time Stands Still]

Maneuvers:
Warblade 1: Moment of Perfect Mind, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap, Punishing Stance
Warblade 2: Leading the Attack
Warblade 3: Wall of Blades, Mountain Hammer (Martial Study)
Warblade 4: Blood in the Water, Leading the Attack -> Battle Leader's Charge
Warblade 5: White Raven Tactics
Warblade 6: Wolf Fang Strike -> Iron Heart Surge
Bloodclaw Master 1: Death from Above
Warblade 7: Dancing Mongoose
Warblade 8: Death from Above -> Mind Over Body
Warblade 9: Moment of Alacrity
Warblade 10: Hearing the Air, Battle Leader's Charge -> War Leader's Charge
Warblade 11: Clarion Call
Warblade 12: Dancing Mongoose -> Raging Mongoose
Warblade 13: White Raven Hammer
Warblade 14: Time Stands Still (Martial Study), War Leader's Charge -> War Master's Charge
Warblade 15: Mountain Tombstone Strike
Warblade 16: Stance of Alacrity

Final Maneuvers Known at Level 20:
Sudden Leap
Moment of Perfect Mind
Mind Over Body
Wall of Blades
Lightning Recovery (from Iron Heart Vest)
Iron Heart Surge
White Raven Tactics
Clarion Call
Moment of Alacrity
Mountain Hammer
Mountain Tombstone Strike
White Raven Hammer
Raging Mongoose
Time Stands Still
War Master's Charge

Stances:
Punishing Stance
Blood in the Water
Hearing the Air
Stance of Alacrity

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This build has a few different ways to get damage as well as some brutal combos at level 20:

1. Charge Combat Rhythm > White Raven Hammer (via Belt of Battle) OR Moment of Alacrity (if my turn starts out after the target's) > Time Stands Still and Raging Mongoose for insane damage

2. Pounce + Valorous weapons + War Master's Charge = EPIC WIN (especially since there will be a Paladin in the party)

3. If I'm feeling completely merciless (in character, this would be because a party member was just downed in dramatic fashion): Activate Shifting and Whirling Frenzy > Time Stands Still to charge Combat Rhythm > White Raven Hammer (via Belt of Battle) OR Moment of Alacrity > Move out to charging distance (via Sudden Leap or Belt of Battle) > War Master's Charge

Blood in the Water and Robilar's Gambit + Channel the Storm is just icing on the very bloody cake.

(EDIT:) Oh yeah, and since Stormguard Warrior gives me almost total control over how much damage I do, I can have Main Character Syndrome in true Shonen fashion.

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Planning the maneuver progression was a pain since, because of the multiclassing, my odd initiator levels come at even Warblade levels for the latter half of the build. As far as I can tell there's nothing I can do about this without taking a different number of non-Warblade levels, but if I'm wrong about that then let me know.

Anyways, any advice? Particularly, any suggestions for tweaking my maneuvers or picking my last three feats would be greatly appreciated. Two-Weapon Rend might be good, but other than that I can't think of anything. (EDIT: Finished picking the feats, but if anyone has something compelling to say about taking Improved Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick instead of Leap of the Heavens and Martial Study [Mountain Hammer], then go ahead.)

Also, I'm open for suggestions as to anything I could take for my second dip. I was thinking Cloistered Cleric for some choice domains, but then I would be delaying my iterative attacks by another level, which is a fairly big deal for a Combat Rhythm build. Ultimately I picked Fighter for the feat, but I'm sure that someone could come up with something better.

These are the only constraints I'm going to put in place for now:
1. Must be human.
2. Must get Stormguard Warrior at ECL 6.
3. Must get 9th level maneuvers no later than ECL 18.

So then, post away.

[Essence_of_War]

In your build order:

Warblade 6/Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Bloodclaw Master 2/Warblade +3/Fighter 1/Warblade +7

I would consider this:

Warblade 6/Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Bloodclaw Master 2/Fighter 1/Warblade +10

Just moving where you take the fighter dip. You come back to Warblade as IL8 rather than IL 7 which means you can start taking 5th level maneuvers when you come back rather than 4th.

Unless there was a specific reason you put it where you did?

[mabriss lethe]

What? No lightning mace/aptitude kukri shenanigans? I'm sad.

[Darrin]

Planning the maneuver progression was a pain since, because of the multiclassing, my odd initiator levels come at even Warblade levels for the latter half of the build. As far as I can tell there's nothing I can do about this without taking a different number of non-Warblade levels, but if I'm wrong about that then let me know.

Move your fighter dip down earlier. This delays your IL enough to pick up your stances at WB 10 and WB 16.

Anyways, any advice? Particularly, any suggestions for tweaking my maneuvers or picking my last three feats would be greatly appreciated.

Your maneuvers all look very solid, except I don't see Mountain Hammer in there... but you can pick that up with a Novice Stone Dragon Belt if need be.

For your last three feats... if you move fighter up, then maybe take Robilar's Gambit at ECL 12, Greater TWF at 15. I'd probably recommend trying to get Improved Unarmed Strike + Snap Kick + Superior Unarmed Strike in there.

Otherwise, take one of the Devotion feats like Travel, Law, or Strength, although this competes for your precious swift actions.

Another option for feats might be Shape Soulmeld, maybe Thunderstep Boots for sonic damage on your charge attacks, and bind it to your feat (Open Least Chakra) for save vs. stun

Also, I'm open for suggestions as to anything I could take for my second dip. I was thinking Cloistered Cleric for some choice domains, but then I would be delaying my iterative attacks by another level, which is a fairly big deal for a Combat Rhythm build. Ultimately I picked Fighter for the feat, but I'm sure that someone could come up with something better.

Fighter should work just fine (you can swap tower shield proficiency for an exotic shield, and then get an animated extreme shield), but if you want to add Snap Kick, consider Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium) for the monk's IUS. If you pick up Superior Unarmed Strike later, you don't have any monk levels and thus your unarmed strike damage will scale up by your character level.

For your kukris, start with Solarian Truesteel (+1000 GP, A&EG/BoED) and add the Pitspawned template if you can (+1000 GP, DMGII) for a +3 bonus to confirm criticals. When you can afford it, upgrade to Abyssal Bloodiron (+12000 GP, Planar Handbook) + Pitspawned for a +6 bonus to confirm criticals.

[Sith_Happens]

What? No lightning mace/aptitude kukri shenanigans? I'm sad.

I did think of that, but decided I should clear it with my DM first since it would effectively double my already obscene damage. Needless to say it didn't fly.

[Sith_Happens]

Move your fighter dip down earlier. This delays your IL enough to pick up your stances at WB 10 and WB 16.

Your maneuvers all look very solid, except I don't see Mountain Hammer in there... but you can pick that up with a Novice Stone Dragon Belt if need be.

I looked at moving the fighter dip, but I don't see how that fixes the odd-initiator-level-even-Warblade-level problem. In fact, it makes it start earlier.

Yeah, I wanted to get Mountain Hammer, but between meeting all my prereqs and getting Iron Heart Surge there wasn't any room for it. Novice maneuver items are only 3k though, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I'd probably recommend trying to get Improved Unarmed Strike + Snap Kick + Superior Unarmed Strike in there.

Otherwise, take one of the Devotion feats like Travel, Law, or Strength, although this competes for your precious swift actions.

Another option for feats might be Shape Soulmeld, maybe Thunderstep Boots for sonic damage on your charge attacks, and bind it to your feet (Open Least Chakra) for save vs. stun

All of those suggestions sound good, especially the Snap Kick one for more Combat Rhythm goodness. I'd have to look through MoI again to see what soulmelds I might want, but for now I don't see myself binding anything since it takes a second feat and a magic item slot (of course, there might be something with a bind that's just that good).

Fighter should work just fine (you can swap tower shield proficiency for an exotic shield, and then get an animated extreme shield), but if you want to add Snap Kick, consider Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium) for the monk's IUS. If you pick up Superior Unarmed Strike later, you don't have any monk levels and thus your unarmed strike damage will scale up by your character level.

Where are the rules on swapping proficencies? And I guess also what/where is the extreme shield?

For your kukris, start with Solarian Truesteel (+1000 GP, A&EG/BoED) and add the Pitspawned template if you can (+1000 GP, DMGII) for a +3 bonus to confirm criticals. When you can afford it, upgrade to Abyssal Bloodiron (+12000 GP, Planar Handbook) + Pitspawned for a +6 bonus to confirm criticals.

Somehow I think that 2k in special materials is out of my price range at level 1, but it's definitely something to consider for later seeing how well it goes with Blood in the Water. That, and I like the sheer over-the-top-ness of a weapon forged in the Abyss out of metal mined from the heavens. If I was DEX-based I'd round it out with Feycrafted to make it even sillier.

[Darrin]

All of those suggestions sound good, especially the Snap Kick one for more Combat Rhythm goodness. I'd have to look through MoI again to see what soulmelds I might want, but for now I don't see myself binding anything since it takes a second feat and a magic item slot (of course, there might be something with a bind that's just that good).

There are two soulmelds that offer natural attacks without binding them to a chakra: Claws of the Wyrm (Dragon Magic), but you need to be dragonblooded (i.e., Silverbrow human), and there's the issue of you're holding kukris in your claws, which gets into some rules issues that your DM probably isn't going to buy.

Chaos Roc's Span (Dragon #350) adds two wing buffet attacks (with reach!) that do nonlethal damage, and are perfect for Combat Rhythm, but most DMs don't allow Dragon material.

Where are the rules on swapping proficencies? And I guess also what/where is the extreme shield?

Races of Stone. Extreme Shield has a +3 shield bonus. An animated extreme shield +1 would cost around 9180 GP.

[Sith_Happens]

There are two soulmelds that offer natural attacks without binding them to a chakra: Claws of the Wyrm (Dragon Magic), but you need to be dragonblooded (i.e., Silverbrow human), and there's the issue of you're holding kukris in your claws, which gets into some rules issues that your DM probably isn't going to buy.

Chaos Roc's Span (Dragon #350) adds two wing buffet attacks (with reach!) that do nonlethal damage, and are perfect for Combat Rhythm, but most DMs don't allow Dragon material.

Yeah, I don't think either of those will work. I don't know that anyone on my floor has any Dragon material at all (which I'm assuming is part of the reason people don't like it, i.e.- availability issues), nontheless the specific issue the wings are in, and I definitely see the problem with using both a claw and the weapon it's holding in the same round (otherwise that Shifting ability from BCM would be a lot more useful). I might still go with Silverbrow, though, because
1. Two of the other players are going to be Dragonwrought Kobolds (neither of them Sorcerers, though), so a dragonblooded character would fit in quite well.
2. I can see if there are any nifty Draconic feats to take in my open spots.
3. What with the weird socialness-with-humanoids schtick of silver dragons, having a little bit of that heritage goes well with the whole Power of Friendship thing and general Shonen-ness.
4. It gives me an excuse to have spikey silver hair.

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Anyways, what I've been thinking is that if I dropped Leap of the Heavens and Adaptive Style, I could have Snap Kick at ECL 3 and then maybe take SUS when my first free slot comes up at ECL 15. I'm not entirely sure whether this is the best idea though. On one hand I have all of one maneuver that takes advantage of LoTH, which I'll hardly use once I get pounce anyways. On the other hand, the Rules Compendium says you can jump as part of a charge to ignore difficult terrain and other obstacles, so LoTH would be useful if such an obstacle were within 20 feet of me at the start of my charge. Similarly, though Adaptive Style is mainly a filler feat, it would really come in handy for, say, switching between my nova loadout and a more balanced one as soon as I see what we're fighting, especially given that at most levels I can only have about half of my maneuvers readied at a given time.

What do you think?

[Keld Denar]

My personal experience says that Adaptive Style is...not so good for a Warblade. You'll generally have your best manuevers readied, and taking a full round to swap them around is generally less efficient than just powering through the encounter with what you have readied. You have a great recovery mechanism, don't waste it.

Darrin suggested Shape Soulmeld for Thunderstep Boots. This isn't really a good idea, as you won't have any essentia to load in them. That means that the damage will be hardly worth the feat (Weapon Spec would give about the same damage!), and the save DC would be pitifully low if you bound them to your feet. If you really want to shape a soulmeld, I'm partial to Displacer Mantle to Shoulders. Gives you a flat 20% miss chance which saves you like, 24k gold on gear. At 12, this is a steal, as 24k is like, 1/5 of your WBL. At 20, it's less attractive, but then again, most things are.

I'd suggest a look at Robilar's Gambit? I makes you a little vulnerable, but it's great for Stormguard Warrior. If you make more attacks per round than your foe, you'll definitely come out ahead, and if you have a source of miss chance, even better.

[Sith_Happens]

My personal experience says that Adaptive Style is...not so good for a Warblade. You'll generally have your best manuevers readied, and taking a full round to swap them around is generally less efficient than just powering through the encounter with what you have readied. You have a great recovery mechanism, don't waste it.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. What about Leap of the Heavens though? And any idea what to take for my third Warblade bonus feat? Ironheart Aura and Combat Reflexes are the only things on the list that stand out as being any good, and those are my first two Warblade bonuses already.

Darrin suggested Shape Soulmeld for Thunderstep Boots. This isn't really a good idea, as you won't have any essentia to load in them. That means that the damage will be hardly worth the feat (Weapon Spec would give about the same damage!), and the save DC would be pitifully low if you bound them to your feet. If you really want to shape a soulmeld, I'm partial to Displacer Mantle to Shoulders. Gives you a flat 20% miss chance which saves you like, 24k gold on gear. At 12, this is a steal, as 24k is like, 1/5 of your WBL. At 20, it's less attractive, but then again, most things are.

I still haven't looked at the soulmeld list yet, but I'll keep all these in mind.

I'd suggest a look at Robilar's Gambit? I makes you a little vulnerable, but it's great for Stormguard Warrior. If you make more attacks per round than your foe, you'll definitely come out ahead, and if you have a source of miss chance, even better.

Already have it. Fighter bonus feat the level after I get Combat Reflexes as a Warblade bonus feat. I also mention it in the tactics section.

[Darrin]

Darrin suggested Shape Soulmeld for Thunderstep Boots. This isn't really a good idea, as you won't have any essentia to load in them.

I guess I should have put a "switch race to Azurin" in there somewhere, although 1 point of essentia over 20 levels isn't particularly exciting. The real reason to get Thunderstep Boots is to bind them to your feet chakra, which adds a "save vs. stun" whenever you charge. I *think* it's a save vs. stun on each attack, but I'm not entirely sure about that.

(Whenever the designers add a feat/ability/effect that can be used in a charge, they all seem to mysteriously forget what the heck this newfangled razzerfrackin "Pounce" thing is...)

Those last two feat slots at ECL 15 and ECL 18 are the loneliest in the game for melee characters...

ECL 9 is almost always that superawesome feat you didn't have room for at ECL 6, and ECL 12 is that *other* superawesome feat you didn't have room for at ECL 6.

ECL 15 and ECL 18 are those "Well, $#!@... I guess I can take Weapon Focus now... or maybe Improved Initiative, that doesn't quite suck as much" slots. I don't understand how the designers could create a tiered system of combat feats that lets you unlock/qualify for higher-level feats from the very first day 3.0 was released, so you can build toward more effective and interesting combat tactics... and then completely, utterly, and totally failed to create any higher-level combat feats for the *entire* run of 3.x. And don't even mention the stuff in PHBII, because almost all of those are, "Did you waste all your feat slots on the half-dozen completely useless prereq feats first?"

It boggles my mind... why exactly were the designers *afraid* of melee characters? Particularly puzzling when you read various sidebars and designer notes where they discuss actually playing the game, and most of them consist of, "Oh man, Skip was running us through the update for Temple of Lanthanide Evil, I was so stoked to get to play a catfolk barbarian, and Monkey Grip is *so awesome*!" Which is odd, since I believe that feat has been updated more often than any other feat, and they have completely failed to fix it and make it worthwhile every time.

Whoops, looks like I got a bit frothy with Rant (Ex), sorry about that.

[The Cat Goddess]

There's a feat in Complete Warrior which gives +4 for confirming Crits.

And speaking of Crits, I don't see the Improved Critical feat. I'd much rather have +1 on a weapon than Keen.

[Dusk Eclipse]

There's a feat in Complete Warrior which gives +4 for confirming Crits.

And speaking of Crits, I don't see the Improved Critical feat. I'd much rather have +1 on a weapon than Keen.

Not really, feats are much more precious than a couple GP, so I would prefer to enchant the weapons

[The Cat Goddess]

Not really, feats are much more precious than a couple GP, so I would prefer to enchant the weapons

As a Warblade, Feats like Improved Critical are much more powerful than normal.

"Nice sword... I think I'll have Improved Critical on it tomorrow!"
"Darn, we've been disarmed... good thing I'll have Improved Critical on my fists in the morning!"

[Draz74]

Not really, feats are much more precious than a couple GP, so I would prefer to enchant the weapons

Depends. Keen is more efficient than Improved Critical for many characters, but a dedicated crit-fisher will generally want to pick up Improved Critical:

• works on all your kukris (at least two) with one feat
• stacks with cool enhancements like Enervating and Slowing Burst
• stacks with Bless Weapon, if you have a friendly paladin around

[Keld Denar]

It really depends on level. If keen is the only other enhancement you buy, then its 12,000g (8000-2000=6000 x2=12000). As you get higher and higher level and want to stack more and more enhancements on your weapon, this cost rises higher and higher. Adding another +1 equiv makes it 20,000g. Adding a +2 equiv instead 28,000g. By the time you get to the difference between a +5 and +6, you are looking at 44,000g for both weapons. I can buy a lot of cool crap, including a couple of other feats, for that price tag. The price only goes up from there.

I know the mantra is generally "never buy with feats what you can get with gold", but for most practical games that don't allow for arbitrarily inflated character wealth due to Wall of Salt shanananananananananananigans, there is a balance point where money becomes more valuable than a feat.

[Sith_Happens]

It really depends on level. If keen is the only other enhancement you buy, then its 12,000g (8000-2000=6000 x2=12000). As you get higher and higher level and want to stack more and more enhancements on your weapon, this cost rises higher and higher. Adding another +1 equiv makes it 20,000g. Adding a +2 equiv instead 28,000g. By the time you get to the difference between a +5 and +6, you are looking at 44,000g for both weapons. I can buy a lot of cool crap, including a couple of other feats, for that price tag. The price only goes up from there.

I know the mantra is generally "never buy with feats what you can get with gold", but for most practical games that don't allow for arbitrarily inflated character wealth due to Wall of Salt shanananananananananananigans, there is a balance point where money becomes more valuable than a feat.

The only problem with Improved Critical is that it requires BAB +8 and all of my feat slots anywhere near then are pretty locked in. I guess I could see whether my DM would let me swap Keen for a different +1 enhancement at ECL 15 and take Improved Critical then. Otherwise I'll just stick with Keen and get that "+4 to confirm crits" feat at 15. I still can't decide whether Leap of the Heavens is worth it though.

[Draz74]

and get that "+4 to confirm crits" feat at 15.

No, whatever you do, don't waste a feat on Power Critical.

[Sith_Happens]

No, whatever you do, don't waste a feat on Power Critical.

Either way I'm kind of stumped on those last two feats. I've narrowed down my last Warblade bonus feat to Improved Initiative, since it's the one that's the least of a waste besides Iron Heart Aura and Combat Reflexes, but otherwise Darrin's point about ECL 15 & 18 is right on the mark right now.

EDIT: Still waiting for a verdict on Leap of the Heavens, by the way.

[Chen]

Either way I'm kind of stumped on those last two feats. I've narrowed down my last Warblade bonus feat to Improved Critical, since it's the one that's the least of a waste besides Iron Heart Aura and Combat Reflexes, but otherwise Darrin's point about ECL 15 & 18 is right on the mark right now.

EDIT: Still waiting for a verdict on Leap of the Heavens, by the way.

Maybe its my bad memory but I didnt think Improved Crit was on the list of Warblade bonus feats?

[Sith_Happens]

Maybe its my bad memory but I didnt think Improved Crit was on the list of Warblade bonus feats?

Oops, meant Improved Initiative. Edited.

[Sith_Happens]

You know, I could just fill in my feats with Martial Study/Stance. With the ECL 18 feat slot I could get Time Stands Still at the same time as War Master's Charge instead of having to wait a level, and taking it at ECL 15 would probably let me grab something nice. Unfortunately, there's nothing particularly good I could get with it at ECL 3 (instead of Adaptive Style) and you can't swap out maneuvers learned from feats. There's always Snap Kick, but then I would have to take Improved Unarmed Strike as my human bonus feat and I still can't decide whether I really want Leap of the Heavens.

[dgnslyr]

I wonder if there's a way to get Mountain Hammer as a maneuver known, and have an item grant you a different maneuver. After all, the time you need it the most is when you're stripped of your gear and thrown into a cell.

[Pechvarry]

Amazed this hasn't been mentioned.

With Stormguard warrior and robilar's gambit, you could get some mileage out of Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook), taking a page out of Jack B. Quick's book.

This means you'd use Channel the Storm less, but Combat Rhythm more (+4 attack/damage per AoO vs a simple +10 damage). And of course, you could simply use it to double-punish someone when you know they're close to dead. If you rule that Snap kick gives an extra attack on AoOs, this is even more appealing. Every time someone attacks you, use 1 AoO to make 3 touch attacks at a -4 penalty for +15 damage.

Now just convince your DM to approve the brokenness of dragon magazine's improved/greater combat reflexes and the campaign will implode.

[Sith_Happens]

I wonder if there's a way to get Mountain Hammer as a maneuver known, and have an item grant you a different maneuver. After all, the time you need it the most is when you're stripped of your gear and thrown into a cell.

Amazed this hasn't been mentioned.

With Stormguard warrior and robilar's gambit, you could get some mileage out of Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook), taking a page out of Jack B. Quick's book.

This means you'd use Channel the Storm less, but Combat Rhythm more (+4 attack/damage per AoO vs a simple +10 damage). And of course, you could simply use it to double-punish someone when you know they're close to dead. If you rule that Snap kick gives an extra attack on AoOs, this is even more appealing. Every time someone attacks you, use 1 AoO to make 3 touch attacks at a -4 penalty for +15 damage.

Now just convince your DM to approve the brokenness of dragon magazine's improved/greater combat reflexes and the campaign will implode.

Hm, both good points. Mountain Hammer is as good a maneuver as any to get from an ECL 3 Martial Study, and I completely forgot about Double Hit which is perfect for ECL 15. At ECL 18 I'll definitely be taking Martial Study again, which both gets me Time Stands Still ASAP and opens up my last maneuver known for Mountain Tombstone Strike. And with that, all of my feats are filled (unfortunately it also means no Snap Kick). Will edit the build.

And what does Improved/Greater Combat Reflexes do? If it's anything along the lines of "make multiple AoO's off of a single opportunity," then coupled with Channel the Strorm and Robilar's Gambit I doubt there would be enough Aspirin in the world to relieve my DM's headache.

EDIT: If anyone has something compelling to say about taking Improved Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick instead of Leap of the Heavens and Martial Study [Mountain Hammer], then go ahead.