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2011-02-20, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Gender
Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
If you have to justify it to yourself, call it "The dragon used its innate magic to mimic the results of blade magic."
I found the Wyrm of War sovereign archetype in Dragons of Eberron and was underwhelmed.
If the dragon in question traded its sorcerer casting for Warblade maneuvers known and readied, warblade recovery, with all disciplines available, what maneuvers would make a good encounter for what kind of dragon? Which do you think are thematically cool? Which would be optimal? Which would make an entertaining encounter?
Obviously, this is for a hypothetical encounter. As a DM, would you use it? How?
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2011-02-20, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- Department of Smiting
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
Flyby Attack lets you take standard actions, so pretty much any strike would work well.
A lot of Iron Heart would be a good idea, both to avoid incapacitation and because Adamantine Hurricane and the like would let it swoop down, hit everybody, then swoop off.
A lot of save-requiring maneuvers would work well, given its enormous Str. If you hand-waved needing to be on the ground, Colossus Strike and other Stone Dragon maneuvers could be interesting; and a lot of Setting Sun to avoid attacks and send people flying would work well.
If it's a non-fire-breathing dragon, some Desert Wind to throw your players for a loop would work well. Especially the maneuvers that are compatible with full attacks.
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2011-02-21, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
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2011-02-21, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Runite
- Gender
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2011-02-21, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
The fire damage boosts and the Insightful Strike line would probably make people cry. Of course so would Revitalizing Strike.
"78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature."
I really haven't. The players quickly move to the tavern after the campaign starts but they never start there. Even the three which have taken place in a city.
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2011-02-21, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2004
- Location
- Enterprise, Alabama
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2011-02-21 at 01:44 PM.
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2011-02-21, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Xin-Shalast
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
See, the thing is, it basically allows a dragon to be even more of a gish with wings and a breath weapon by picking and choosing maneuvers and spells. So that's how I'd use it, I'd play up the Gishy nature of True Dragons. And with knowstones on the table, it's a better version of the Jade Phoenix Mage but without class features.
At least, as I've always understood it, it wasn't a complete trade of casting.
I'd give it a couple of nasty maneuvers/stances that synergized well with being a giant lizard with lots of natural weapons and focus the rest on spells for gishing (shield, mage armor, wraithstrike, heroics) and general draconic survival (like wings of cover or scintillating scales or wall of X for dividing targets)
Edit: It provides a more compelling reason to play a dragon as a melee monster without completely getting rid of or ignoring its magical side... Or even castrating it magically by giving it the Xorvintaal template.
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2011-02-21, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- The Land of the Cats
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
Any Dragon with tunnelling could do well with Stone Dragon maneuvers...
And White Dragons should be able to substitute standing on Ice.
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2011-02-21, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
Not exactly what the OP is talking about, but if a Fang Dragon picked up some maneuvers via feats and/or items, would make for an interesting encounter.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2011-02-21, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Utah
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
You can call me Draz.
Trophies:
Spoiler
Also of note:
- Winning Entry of Gestalt Build Challenge IV
- 3rd Place in Iron Chef XI (Blade Bravo)
- Judge of Iron Chef XXIII (Divine Champion)
I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.
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2011-02-21, 10:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
Fang Dragon + Flyby Attack + Adamantine Hurricane
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2011-02-22, 12:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Utah
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
You can call me Draz.
Trophies:
Spoiler
Also of note:
- Winning Entry of Gestalt Build Challenge IV
- 3rd Place in Iron Chef XI (Blade Bravo)
- Judge of Iron Chef XXIII (Divine Champion)
I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.
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2011-02-22, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
Iron Heart Surge for those pesky Ray of ____ spells or shivering spells.
Leaping Flame (immediate action counter that teleports you next to someone that just attacked you, like that spell slinging mage.)
Action Before Thought (what bad save?)
Time Stands Still (Two Full Attacks) + Girallon Windmill Fleshrip (for massive Rend damage) followed by...
Shadow Stride or Shadow Blink for a "yoinks and away!"
And, of course: Crusader's Strike, Revitalizing Strike, Rallying Strike, Strike of Righteous Vitality, Iron Heart Endurance, and the stance Immortal Fortitude for when you want the battle to just keep going and going and going.....
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2011-02-22, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- On A Boat
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
This is such an awesome idea...
A Black Dragon that goes Shadowhand would be interesting, no?
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2011-02-22, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
I'd be tempted to give it Master of Nine levels.
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2011-02-22, 07:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- The Land of the Cats
- Gender
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2011-02-22, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
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2011-02-22, 11:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Gender
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2011-02-22, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
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2011-02-23, 12:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
But with the appropriate maneuvers, they can still make an interesting encounter. Perhaps not optimal, but optimized enemies should only come out of the woodwork when your players become invincible.
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2011-02-23, 12:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
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2011-02-23, 12:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Utah
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
You can call me Draz.
Trophies:
Spoiler
Also of note:
- Winning Entry of Gestalt Build Challenge IV
- 3rd Place in Iron Chef XI (Blade Bravo)
- Judge of Iron Chef XXIII (Divine Champion)
I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.
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2011-02-23, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
Then I shall have to make a Psion with 3 WIS and CHA!
Not actually to prove a point, mind. Just because it'd be hilarious.
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2011-02-23, 12:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
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2011-02-23, 02:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- Harmondale
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
Isn't the Wyrm of war limited to tiger claw martial discipline?
AFB, but I seem to recall something like that.
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2011-02-23, 02:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
I like to think of white dragons as the dragons from Deliverence. They're basically mentally retarded, inbred, walrus humping hick dragons. They make amazing guides, trackers and banjo players though. I'd also replace their sorcerer casting with bard casting of equal level.
My fantasy/RPG blog A Voyage Into the Fantastic
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2011-02-23, 04:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Xin-Shalast
- Gender
Re: Dragon w/ maneuvers instead of spells
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2011-02-23, 05:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
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2011-02-23, 08:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Gender
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2011-02-23, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
- Gender