Getting wizard in a prestige paladin

[SiuiS]

Ahoy thar :B

I'm trying to find a way to get wizard casting on my prestige paladin, with as simple a build as possible (fighter 3/wizard X, for example). Original plan was to use Alternate Source Spell to qualify for the casting protection from Evil as a divine spell, and I could talk the DM into letting the +1 divine caster level apply to wizard in this fashion.

Turn undead has me borked though. How can I get it without dread necromancer? I want to avoid base class dips, but I may have to go into one anyway.

Anyone have any build suggestions? I haven't been able to really hit the books on this (laptop down, bookshelf blocked off) and have no paperwork, so I'm not even sure what level of wizard is required for the spell requirement. So be gentle on the obvious mistakes, aye? ;)

[Geiger Counter]

sorry but you are asking the impossible.
prestige paladin only increases divine casting.
why don't you just play a regular old wizard (or a gish) you will eventually be able to wipe the floor with undead

[Mando Knight]

...Why do you want Prestige Paladin with Wizard? There's absolutely no synergy. Fighter 3 is also one of the 9 worst levels of Fighter, since it comes after Fighter 2 but doesn't really give you anything before Fighter 4.

[RndmNumGen]

...Why do you want Prestige Paladin with Wizard? There's absolutely no synergy. Fighter 3 is also one of the 9 worst levels of Fighter, since it comes after Fighter 2 but doesn't really give you anything before Fighter 4.

I echo this statement. As far as actually getting into Prestiege Paladin though, why not just dip Cloistered Cleric?

[Draz74]

Sacred Exorcist is the classic PrC-dip to pick up Turn Undead, and it's easily accessible to Wizards. Might require delaying your Paladin entry by a few levels though.

[Frozen_Feet]

Isn't there a feat called Sword of Arcane Order or some such that adds Wizard spells into a Paladins list? Would that work with PrC Paladin?

What is the PrC Pally there for, anyway? It doesn't advance Arcane casting, so are you after Divine Grace etc.? You could just pick those up by dipping in base Paladin.

Besides, as far as synergizing Pally and arcane classes, Sorcerer works better than Wizard anyhow.

[Andion Isurand]

The high one warrior wizard are good substitution levels worth looking at.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a

[SiuiS]

prestige paladin only increases divine casting.

I could talk the DM into letting the +1 divine caster level apply to wizard in this fashion.

--

What is the PrC Pally there for, anyway? It doesn't advance Arcane casting, so are you after Divine Grace etc.? You could just pick those up by dipping in base Paladin

quite specifically, it's there because it is different mechanically from base paladin and non-magic paladin, without being too different (taking a level of crusader and calling it paladin wouldn't work, for example). It is an attempt to model a character accurately without going too far into optimization territory. It's not supposed to have a lot of synergy, because the guy didn't spend his life training for synergy; it's a gestalt of following the calling of his heart while still doing what he wants. Any inferiority to standard paladin or prestige paladin is somewhat intentional.

Fighter 3 is also one of the 9 worst levels of Fighter

the best answer is because I can't use non-magic paladin to qualify for prestige paladin anymore. We did that once, and while hilariously fun, it's not an experiment we want to go through again. I may use knight instead, but fighter 3 isn't so bad. It's an extra 2 feats over what I would have- sure, it's not 3, but 90% is just as good as 100% when your goal is, say, to beat a 60% benchmark.

Thanks for the Sacred Exorcist heads up. I'll see what info I can pull on it from my phone here. Need to get my laptop back in order...

[SiuiS]

Andion, from what I can find that looks fabulous (I just have to file off the serial numbersSpecific Religion and I'm golden) with one exception; I'm on a smart phone and can't open zip files. Could I get someone to tell me what the prereqs are for Sword of the High One Warrior (or whatever the ACF is called in the update)? No one I know has the expansion for champions of valor. Didn't even know it existed! Thanks, man.

[Mando Knight]

Actually, High One Warrior requires Paladin levels... pretty sweet substitution levels, though.

[SiuiS]

Yeah. I'm pretty certain I can do something like Fighter 2/wizard 5/prestige Paladin 1 and then retrain the wizard levels into Sword of The High One ACF, but I need to know what the prereqs are first.

Failing that I'll look at that weird divine-arcane caster thing from BoED, with the picture of a gnome chick with a gemstone eyeball. It changes arcane to divine, as I recall.

[Chilingsworth]

Yeah. I'm pretty certain I can do something like Fighter 2/wizard 5/prestige Paladin 1 and then retrain the wizard levels into Sword of The High One ACF, but I need to know what the prereqs are first.

Failing that I'll look at that weird divine-arcane caster thing from BoED, with the picture of a gnome chick with a gemstone eyeball. It changes arcane to divine, as I recall.

I believe you're thinking of Exalted Arcanist, And it doesn't change arcane to divine. It does add some usually divine spells to your list, though.

[SiuiS]

Bollocks, you're right! And it requires 3rd level casting, too. I am never going to find a situation where exalted arcanist is a good idea

Looks like there is no easy road for my main post, and I'm gonna have to do the footwork myself. Thanks, Playgrounders. I'll let you know howthis travesty goes, if it does.

[navar100]

Play a Lawful Good Duskblade. You don't need to be the Paladin class to play like one. Talk to your DM to work it into the game you want to play a holy arcane warrior sanctioned by whomever as one would sanction a Paladin.

If you want more wizard-like spellcasting, then play a Lawful Good gish with Abjurant Champion then perhaps Spellsword.

Just because you aren't a paladin, cleric, or monk doesn't mean you can't be Lawful Good.

What is it about "Paladin" you really want? (Serious question.)

[Lord.Sorasen]

The best answer is because I can't use non-magic paladin to qualify for prestige paladin anymore. We did that once, and while hilariously fun, it's not an experiment we want to go through again. I may use knight instead, but fighter 3 isn't so bad. It's an extra 2 feats over what I would have- sure, it's not 3, but 90% is just as good as 100% when your goal is, say, to beat a 60% benchmark.

I think the poster if referring to fighter 3 in comparison to fighter 2 or 4 (and forgive me if you are aware of this, you can essentially ignore this paragraph). Fighter 2 will give you 2 bonus feats, which seems to be that 90% you wanted without the 3rd level, while fighter 4 will give you 3 bonus feats. At fighter 3, you gain no features that would be granted by fighter 2. You could easily replace not the entire class, but just the third level, for perhaps fighter 2/another level of magic class, or fighter 4/one less level of prestige paladin.

ALSO: Sword of the arcane Order was mentioned earlier, but you didn't directly respond to it so I'll throw in a vote for it. This is a feat for paladins which allows you to cast wizard spells using paladin slots. This would mean accessing paladin with cleric (or cloistered cleric or whatever) and then putting points into intelligence and casting wizard spells through that.

[Coidzor]

Right. So. Our requirements

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Lawful good Alignment
Base Attack Bonus: +4.

Skills: Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 2 ranks, Ride 4 ranks.

Feats: Mounted Combat.

Spellcasting: Ability to cast protection from evil as a divine spell.

Special: Ability to turn undead.

Of these, the skills and feat are negligible for now. So, first thing to examine is getting protection from evil as a divine spell or waiving that requirement since it'll be advancing arcane casting anyway(and, I believe you said that you're fortunately getting that requirement waived). Luckily it's a 1st level wizard spell and a 1st level cleric spell, so either dipping cleric 1, being able to count as casting divine spells somehow, or just having a level of wizard will take care of this. One just can't ban Abjuration.

Now, the ability to turn undead is a bit trickier:

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Turn/rebuke Undead

grants turn/rebuke undead - anything that grants turning generally stacks
Cleric 1
Paladin 4
Blackguard 3, ecl, command or rebuke only
Sacred Exorcist 1, ecl 8, Complete Divine, turn only
Ur-priest 2, ecl 7, Complete Divine, rebuke only
Divine Mind 4, Complete Divine, class variant (here)
Dread Necromancer 1, base class, Heroes of Horror, rebuke only
Death Delver 1, ecl 6, Heroes of Horror, rebuke only
Chameleon 3, ecl 8, Races of Destiny, see text
Master of Radiance 1, ecl 6, Libris Mortin, turn only - unclear whether you gain turning or if it only stacks
Tenebrous, vestige, ecl 7, Tome of Magic, unlimited use but see text
Knight of the Raven 3, ecl 7, Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
Apostle of Peace 1, ecl 8, Book of Exalted Deeds
Soldier of Light 1, ecl 6, Deities and Demigods
Deadgrim 1, ecl 6, Magic of Eberron - unclear whethero you gain turning or if it only stacks

This should be most of the ways to gain turn undead.

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As one can see, it generally takes a character being about 5th-6th level in order to qualify for the PrCs that grant such abilities. Luckily most of them are first level. Knight of the Raven is, I believe, the easiest to qualify for and being full BAB. Unfortunately it's a divine casting class so it'd have to be adapted for an arcanist like PRC Pally is anyway.

Of these, I believe Master of Radiance and Sacred Exorcist are the least onerous to get into just as an arcanist, but I can't recall the details very well offhand. Multiclassing into Cleric 1 is still easier but may be too much CL and dilute the theme of the build. Unfortunately, a wizard needs to be effectively 9th level to get dismissal as a spell due to it being 5th level.

I guess one could use the simple barbarian from unearthed arcana to grab the favored enemy qualification for Deadgrim and either use a feat or another means to get heavy armor proficiency for spellsword... It's not that good though, even though rage isn't all that valuable to a caster anyway. And it mildly-to-seriously complicates things with having to switch alignments rather than starting as LG.

BAB, wise, either partial BAB or the levels that one has to grab in order to get turn undead will take care of it, so it's not as much of a priority until an early entry ability presents itself to the question of

...How much PrC Paladin are you intending on getting, anyway?

At this rate, wizard 8-> spellsword 1-> sacred exorcist 1-> prestige paladin 1-3-> Abjurant Champion 5-> and finally X2-4 seems to be about the build that one can hope for. Losing 1-2 levels of casting. But losing 5 points of BAB...:/ Adding a level of fighter/crusader/whatever in there at about level 7 can get spellsword and abjurant champion better... So, like, Wizard 6/Crusader 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 2/ Sacred Exorcist 1/PrC Pally 1-3/Abjurant Champion +3/X 3-5

[dextercorvia]

It's been mentioned twice, but let me show you how easy it is.

Sword of the Arcane Order is a feat that requires you be a 4th level paladin, but Prestige Paladin fits that bill.

Take Fighter1/Cleric4/PrestigePaladin4

You will drop three casting levels, but you will have access to every Cleric, Paladin, and Wizard spell.

[Thurbane]

Archivist is (basically) a divine Wizard...if you get Turn Undead, that would slot nicely into Prestige Paladin. Through Domains, Adept, Druid and other divine spell lists, you can get quite a lot of Wizard/Sorc spells anyway.

[SiuiS]

Interesting. I did see Sword of the Arcane Order but didn't have exact text. Now I'm home, now I do... Wow. Interesting feat, I tells ya.

How would one go about scribing spells if one is not a wizard? It would be irritating to pay someone else to scribe em for me...

So for now Im looking at fighter 2/ wizard 5/ cleric 1/PrC paladin 12, sword/arcane order and sword/high ones ACF. Fighter may be replaced by knight, and it will be ordered differently (I won't go straight wiz 5 then cleric 1, for example), but that's about where it sits.

[faceroll]

It's been mentioned twice, but let me show you how easy it is.

Sword of the Arcane Order is a feat that requires you be a 4th level paladin, but Prestige Paladin fits that bill.

Take Fighter1/Cleric4/PrestigePaladin4

You will drop three casting levels, but you will have access to every Cleric, Paladin, and Wizard spell.

me gusta

[JaronK]

I'd have to second Archivist, which is just a divine version of a Wizard. You could do something very simple like Archivist Y/Sacred Exorcist 1/PrC Paladin X and take Sword of the Arcane Order to even get a bunch of Wizard spells (though that's not necessary, Archivist already has pretty much all of them). If you really want you can throw in Fighter levels somewhere (though I'd find Crusader levels to be far more appropriate and thematic) and you can take as much PrC Paladin as you like... or finish out with more Sacred Exorcist, Contemplative, Ruby Knight Vindicator, or other appropriate PrC.

JaronK