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Thread: Shadowbane Inquisitor
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2006-09-15, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Shadowbane Inquisitor
These guys rock! They are, to me, everything good about being a Paladin. It's just a shame that they have to be LG (IMO).
However, I noticed something about the class that didn't seem right. If an Inquisitor takes levels of Blackguard, his inquisitor levels stack with his paladin levels for the purposes of determining his extra abilities. However, an Inquisitor doesn't lose any of his class abilities for losing LG.
For Example: Paladin 4 / Rogue 2 goes Shadowbane for 10 levels. At Level 17, he takes Blackguard, losing the abilities from his 4 levels of Paladin, but keeps his 10 levels of Shadowbane. Looking up the table of extra Blackguard abilities, he counts as having 14 levels of Paladin. This means that he immediately gets an additional 4 levels of Blackguard (swapping out the Paladin Levels), putting him at Blackguard 5 and also gets all the abilities of a level 10 Paladin going Blackguard (Undead companion, Smite good +/day, Lay on hands, etc.). In addition, he keeps all of his Shadowbane abilities.
I hope the above made sense and would ask if someone could either clarify my mistakes or confirm my suspicions. If the above is true, Shadowbane Blackguards are far better than Paladin ones (And you just have to love the imagery of this ultra-evil dude with black armour and a spiky sword calling light and denouncing obviously good people in the name of right)I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2006-09-15, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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- with Carmen Sandiego.
Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
You just made the BBEG for my campaign.
Thank you.Member of a fanclub.
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2006-09-15, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- England
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Not a problem! ;D
I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2006-09-15, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- Wandering in Harrekh
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
He sounds like the cleric guy from Goblins. ;D
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2006-09-15, 01:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Originally Posted by TeloniusI am a poor man, some say I’m half crazy,
son of the sword and the knife
Lady I pledge you my sword and my honor,
my heart and my pride and my life
--Bella Doña, by Joe Bethancourt
Spoiler
Alas, poor Draknir. By Mephibosheth
Owl-atar by KingGolem
You will be missed, dear 'stache...
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2006-09-15, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- Wandering in Harrekh
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Originally Posted by JackMann
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2006-09-15, 10:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
As far as I know, except in special cases like the ur-priest, you lose all the abilites from a PrC except HP, BAB, and Saves if you ever stop meeting the prerequisites, like alignment.
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2006-09-15, 10:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Originally Posted by Luircin
Shadowbane Inquisitors are set up to be really powerful Blackguards, and retain all abilities despite any alignment changes.Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
I keep my stories in a blog. You should read them.
5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist
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2006-09-16, 02:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Hmm.. so you could end up being a chaotic good paladin/blackguard/Inquisitor at no penalty and can smite anything you feel like...nice.
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2006-09-16, 02:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
You'd still lose the Paladin and Blackgaurd abilities for being Chaotic Good. The Inquisitor abilities would be retained, though.
Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
I keep my stories in a blog. You should read them.
5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist
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2006-09-16, 03:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Seattle, USA
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Upon losing the paladin abilities, however, you'd lose the shadowbane inquisitor abilities, as you no longer meet the detect evil and turn undead requirements.
Whenever you fail to meet the prerequisites for a prestige class you lose all abilities from that class except for BAB, Base Saves, Hit Points, and Weapon and Armor Proficiencies"Sometimes, we’re heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."
-Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion
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2006-09-16, 03:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Originally Posted by TheOOB
That seems... unreasonable, as the class is intended to synergise well with Blackguard.Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
I keep my stories in a blog. You should read them.
5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist
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2006-09-16, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Seattle, USA
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
It is possible my knowledge is flawed, as hard as it is to accept I can be wrong :P
Now that I think about it, that ruling on PrCs I think I found in the 3.0 FAQ awhile ago, I'm not sure if I've seen anything 3.5 concerning this."Sometimes, we’re heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."
-Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion
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2006-09-16, 03:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Oak Harbor, WA
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Originally Posted by TheOOB"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
- Thomas Jefferson
Avatar by Meynolds!
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2006-09-16, 03:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2005
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- Back in the USSR
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
I believe the consensus on PrC prerequisites is either that you need them a) to take the first level of the PrC or b) to take a new level of the PrC; unless specifically stated, you don't immediately lose your PrC class abilities just because you no longer meet the prerequisites.
This is unlike feats, which you lose immediately for as long as you don't meet the requirements, and Paladin class abilities, which you lose when you turn Evil, commit an outright Evil act, or "grossly violate your code of conduct."Spoiler
Stealthy Snake avatar by Dawn
Lack of images by Imageshack
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2006-09-16, 07:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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- Ēast Seaxna rīc
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Originally Posted by Marrik
Unless you go into epic of course, but then you're supposed to be powerful."that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
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2006-09-16, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2005
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- Sunshine Coast, Australia
Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Originally Posted by Hallavast
Still, it does have a powerful suite of abilities."You would not want to be staring that way at me." -Al Swearengen
"Crush your enemy, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women." -Conan
Let's harvest some kidneys!!
I'm not a magic fan but...:
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2006-09-16, 07:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Originally Posted by Sir_Banjo
Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
I keep my stories in a blog. You should read them.
5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist
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2006-09-16, 11:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- England
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Upon losing the paladin abilities, however, you'd lose the shadowbane inquisitor abilities, as you no longer meet the detect evil and turn undead requirements.
Whenever you fail to meet the prerequisites for a prestige class you lose all abilities from that class except for BAB, Base Saves, Hit Points, and Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
...hmmm, maybe that's where the discrepancy comes in though...going Blackguard would make you lose the Shadowbane abilities, therefore, to replace them, you use the 'extra Blackguard abilities' table for Pallys....yep. that's it. Thank-you. I thought it was a bit too powerful keeping all the Shadowbane abilities whilst getting extras for Blackguard.
So basically, going Pally/Shadowbane/Blackguard results in the same as going straight Pally/Blackguard (but for skills). If anything it's worse, because Shadowbanes get Improved sunder as a class feat, which is one of the requisites of Blacky, so as soon as they take Blacky, they lose all abilities of all their classes untill thy can pick up Imp Sunder again..........wow. that's naf.
Cleric/Shadowbane is the only way to keep Shadowbane abilities at alignment other than LG, and only if you stay within one step (alignment wise) of your deity.
If there was a way to get Turn Undead and Detect Evil back though...nah, you have to be evil for Blackguard..oh well, it was just a thought.
That's a crying shame though - I liked the idea of the misguided Shadowbane Inquisitor using his Detect Good, thinking it was Detect Evil and then using what are blatently evil powers to everyone else but he just doesn't realise what he's doing or see that they're evil.
The shadowbane inquisitor is a blantant "rip-off" of the 40k universe, not that GW can take the high ground. The gritty and above all, morally grey (ie. ends justify the means) take is more at home there than in the largely cheery D&D ruleset. I cannot understand, within the bounds of how the alignment system is usually presented, why this was ever included in the game. Does anyone else see the conflict hereI apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2006-09-16, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Originally Posted by TheOOB
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2006-09-16, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Absolute Conviction only applies to alignment change. If he loses Turn Undead or Detect Evil, he loses the class abilities.
I think it was supposed to be implied that he never loses class abilities due to not meeting the requirements, but RAW, only a Cleric/Shadowbane who changes to an alignment that is still acceptable for his/her deity keeps their abilities. Paladin/Shadowbanes always lose their abilities upon changing alignment because they lose their Detect Evil and Turn Undead Paladin class features.I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2006-09-16, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Not meeting a prereq is not justification for losing class abilities.
Look at the Ur-Priest.
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2006-09-17, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2005
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- Sunshine Coast, Australia
Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
Originally Posted by Marrik"You would not want to be staring that way at me." -Al Swearengen
"Crush your enemy, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women." -Conan
Let's harvest some kidneys!!
I'm not a magic fan but...:
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2007-10-17, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
you gotta think about it, all of this is at the DM's discretion...
"'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me take my place among them. In the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live forever."
-The 13th Warrior
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2007-10-17, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
"'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me take my place among them. In the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live forever."
-The 13th Warrior
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2007-10-17, 05:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Davis, California
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2007-10-17, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Department of Smiting
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Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
40K definitely does not have a monopoly on Inquisitors looking for heretics. Looking for heretics was, historically, the main activity of inquisitors. The Spanish Inquistion was created to find people who were secretly non-Catholic. And 40K does not have a monopoly on moral ambiguity. Just because there's more dark and gritty stuff in 40K doesn't mean any dark and gritty stuff in DnD is a ripoff. As for the sword and armor... they're swords and armor. There are only so many possible variations in their appearance.
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2007-10-17, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Shadowbane Inquisitor
"'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me take my place among them. In the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live forever."
-The 13th Warrior
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2007-10-17, 09:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Avatar by Serpentine.
"Love takes up where knowledge leaves off."
- St. Thomas Aquinas
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2007-10-17, 09:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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