Anyone ever dealt with blind characters?

[Malibar]

I am currently DMing a game and I potentially have an interesting situation that I don’t know how to handle. The party consists of a ranger, a sorcerer, a fighter, and a bard. The player who is playing the ranger is experienced and knows how to build characters better than the other players. So he wouldn’t leave them in the dust as far as power level, he decided to try playing a blind archer. One of the abilities his character has is blindsense 20ft. I have no problem with his character having blindsense, but here is where things get interesting.

Let’s say the party is raiding a high level thieves’ gang hideout, with 6 members. They know where it is and decide to just go in guns blazing. In the 2-3 rounds it takes to break down the door, roof, wall, etc., two of the six thieves turn invisible. Let’s assume that all the enemies are within the ranger’s blindsense, but it’s the same problem if they enter it at any time during the fight. The ranger automatically knows how many enemies there are, six, but he has no way of knowing that they are invisible. The rest of the party doesn’t know that there are six, only being able to see four. It’s a problem of who gets what information how.

If I put four minis on the board, the ranger doesn’t get the benefit of his blindsense. If I put all six on, the enemies lose most of the benefits of invisibility, because the characters who can’t see them still know that they are there and where they are. If I put four on and tell the ranger(and only the ranger) where the other two are, he knows something is unusual about the two, when to his character the enemies should all be identical, and he will either target them first, revealing their presence, or ask the other characters about them, also revealing their presence. In real life I imagine unless they got very lucky it would take the party at least a couple of seconds to realize that there were some invisible combatants.

Is there any way to handle this that doesn’t require trusting the ranger’s character to have the information but not use it in his selection of targets?

Also, though I've been reading these forums for a long time this is my first post so I apologize for the lack of formatting.

[Reynard]

Private notes, maybe?

Though a bit of a giveaway, it might help.

[RTGoodman]

I was gonna suggest you pass him a note telling him where the invisible creatures are, but he can still see the board and know which are invisible (and probably target them). I see three options.

1. Have the player turn away from the table and tell him there are six targets. Give him a small version of the map for him to keep up with, that only shows stuff in his 20' radius. That's pretty intense and more trouble for you.

2. Tell him there are two invisible creatures on the map, but don't put miniatures down. Number the monsters 1 through 6, and on his turn have him roll a die. That's the enemy he targets. That takes away player choice, but if they're all statistically the same it shouldn't matter.

3. Hope he targets the one others have targeted or ones that pose a bigger threat.

[HunterOfJello]

Seperate sheet of graph paper that has the battlemap on it. Show it to the ranger player and none of the others.

This way you can mark out the location of the enemies on that map and not on the table for the ranger only.

[Malibar]

Yeah but the problem is still that the player then has a distinction between the four visible opponents and the two invisible ones that the character wouldn't. The more I think about it the more I think there is no perfect solution. Thanks for the thought though.

[Malibar]

I like number 2. If they are all statistically the same then forcing a random target would work reasonably well. I also like the idea of making the visible opponents obviously more dangerous than the invisible ones. Then it is reasonable to assume that the ranger would not target the invisible ones first. Both of these are good ideas and I don't mind a little bit of compromise. Thanks a ton guys.

[Thrawn183]

Give private notes to everyone. Most of them will read something along the lines of:

"I'm really grateful to have a player like you in my campaign!"

His will have the location of the invisible enemies.

[zephyrkinetic]

This is where the good players get separated from the not-so-good ones. My table has a very strict meta-gaming policy, and I recommend them to every DM I meet. Mine goes like this: If you do it, you're dismissed from the game. If you want to institute something a little less harsh, that's up to you.

Your situation:
His character has a right to know; the other character's don't. The respective players must attack/react/target as they normally would given the information available to their characters. If they do something they shouldn't, call shenanigans.

[Mango Fox]

1. Have the player turn away from the table and tell him there are six targets. Give him a small version of the map for him to keep up with, that only shows stuff in his 20' radius. That's pretty intense and more trouble for you.

If you are willing to dramatically change up the game dynamic to reflect the character's blindness and blindsense, this might be a good idea. Perhaps even have two grids, separated by a shield so that the "blind" player only sees one and the "seeing" players only see the other. It would be a bit more work than normal, but it would really play up the character's blindness/blindsense.

Or you could just tell players not to metagame, as Zephyr said. I feel like it cheapens the game a bit, though, when you consistently know what the "right" thing for your character to do is but have to wait until you can justify it in game.

[tyckspoon]

Don't put the invisible figures on the map unless they get made visible in some way. Tell the group as a whole 'you see four enemies' and put them down. Tell the Ranger he detects six creatures in addition to his own party. If he wants to know about the specific location of them, pass him a note with that information. And remember that even if the Ranger does announce their presence to the rest of the party, they're still invisible- unless revealed in some other way they will still deny Dex to their victims, will still only be targetable by guessing their square (except for the Ranger), and even if successfully targeted will still get a 50% miss chance. They should have enough advantage to make a good ambush/surprise strike even if they don't get complete surprise.

[RTGoodman]

If you are willing to dramatically change up the game dynamic to reflect the character's blindness and blindsense, this might be a good idea. Perhaps even have two grids, separated by a shield so that the "blind" player only sees one and the "seeing" players only see the other. It would be a bit more work than normal, but it would really play up the character's blindness/blindsense.

The only thing is, I think it would be a neat idea the first few times, but then it'd just be a hassle. I like DMing and making it fun and interesting for players, but I already do enough work for my weekly game as it is.

This is where the good players get separated from the not-so-good ones.

Off-topic but... do I know you? I'm also in Greenville and have been for like six years now. My name's Ryan and I run the 4E game at Mind Games on Thursday nights.

[zephyrkinetic]

Off-topic but... do I know you? I'm also in Greenville and have been for like six years now. My name's Ryan and I run the 4E game at Mind Games on Thursday nights.

Heh. Doubt it, though you may know my wife; she's lived here her whole life. I got stationed in Goldsboro with the USAF, met her, and became local. I don't find myself in Mind Games much anymore (I found a new shop, Gamer's Haven, on Charles), and we run a small Saturday night/Sunday morning 3.5E game at my house. Haven't played 4E yet, either, nor do I intend to; I spent too much time learning (and buying) 3.5.

Doesn't mean we can't maybe hang out sometime. Local nerds are good to know.

[RTGoodman]

Heh. Doubt it, though you may know my wife; she's lived here her whole life. I got stationed in Goldsboro with the USAF, met her, and became local. I don't find myself in Mind Games much anymore (I found a new shop, Gamer's Haven, on Charles), and we run a small Saturday night/Sunday morning 3.5E game at my house. Haven't played 4E yet, either, nor do I intend to; I spent too much time learning (and buying) 3.5.

Doesn't mean we can't maybe hang out sometime. Local nerds are good to know.

Ah, cool. Yeah, I've been a student at ECU (first for my BA and now for my MA) since 2005, so I figured I know a lot of the D&D players in town. I've been in Gamer's Haven a few times (and have known Matt for years), but I already spend money and the two other stores and can't afford to buy more stuff! Maybe if I get time to run or play in another campaign I'll get in touch.


Sorry for the off-topic, OP. Now, back to blind rangers!

[Pentachoron]

Maybe it's just me, but Blindsense 20ft seems like a bit much to give to a character for free, seems a bit OP to give to a player you already described as OP compared to the rest of the party.

Anyway, if you feel like it's a good idea it's your call, I'd probably handle it with notes to the player as has been suggested.

[JaronK]

Eh, a Blindfold of True Darkness has the drawback that you can't see (so, nothing on a blind character) and gives Blindsight 30'. So it's hardly a big deal. Frankly, since the Blind flaw is supposed to give more than one bonus feat, it's a heck of a good deal, and there's no need to be giving out freebees. Bonus points if he gets Mindsight to extend his detection range.

Anyway, part of the problem here is that you use mats with figures, which aren't good for dealing with situation where people in the party have different amounts of information. I'd just put down 4 figures and give the Ranger a note, and if he's actually a good roleplayer he'll work with it.

JaronK