A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad
Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnome Alone's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Cat Food Island
    Gender
    Male

    Default [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Howdy Playgroundistas, I thought I'd ask some quick advice on account of y'all so knowledgeable.

    I am pretty new to playing D&D, and especially 4e - I've played in two one-off games, and the first was seriously just a skill challenge. But it turns out that a local gaming store near me does Friday night dungeon crawls, in which Level 1 characters traipse off into a pit in the ground belonging to some crazy wizard, blah blah blah, etc.

    Supposedly it's pretty deadly; they mark the positions of and draw your attention to the corpses of previous adventurers. Now, I'm no sore loser but I'd like to not die, so with that in mind I asked the advice of my brother, a long-time RPer and DM, for some advice on creating a guy with a decent chance of surviving - he said go Ranger or Cleric. As it turns out I was thinking Ranger anyway for some reason, so Ranger it is.

    This seems a good time to mention that the store's dungeon (interesting phrase there) allows only classes, races and feats from the PHB 1, except you can also be a Goliath, Drow or Gnome. Again on brotherly advice, I went Gnome for the racial encounter power Fade Away, which will allow me to go invisible after getting wailed on.

    So I'm an Archer Ranger with a longbow and hide armor, my at-wills are Twin Strike and Nimble Strike, my encounter is Evasive Strike, my daily is Hunter's Bear Trap and my feat is Lethal Hunter. Basically I figure I'll try to ventilate everything before it gets too close as my main survival strategy. (Stealth is definitely on the Trained Skill list [along with Acrobatics, Perception and Dungeoneering.])

    So I'd appreciate any advice on any of this, but where I'm especially worried is stats. I'm a big fan of rolling for stats, but the policy is all stats starting at 10 except one at 8, then 22 points to distribute anywhere. I'm not sure, but isn't point-buy weighted in some way the higher it gets? Because putting the 8 in INT and with the Gnome's +2 to INT and CHA, I came up with STR 12, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 18, CHA 12, but I'm not sure I can actually do that and it makes me feel munchkin-y.

    Well, any ideas, folks? Thanks in advance.

    Also, since if you've read this far you clearly don't mind me yammering on wasting your time, I will tell you I've decided to name my lil' ranger Sloopy. As in, hang on, Sloopy. Sloopy, hang on.
    Last edited by Gnome Alone; 2011-02-23 at 01:36 AM. Reason: added comma because anal
    Avatar by the one and only Ceika.
    "I'll be whatever I wanna do." - Philip J. Fry
    my fake wizard|my fake one-shot|my fake link

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Manila, PH
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    You can't use a longbow with a gnome because they are small. the small descriptor says you can't use large two-handed weapons. So shortbow! or crossbow, which deals better damage but reloads better.
    My mother says: those on fire should roll.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnome Alone's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Cat Food Island
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Aw crap. Thanks. Shortbow is d8, right? Crossbow...? (Don't have the book just yet.)
    Avatar by the one and only Ceika.
    "I'll be whatever I wanna do." - Philip J. Fry
    my fake wizard|my fake one-shot|my fake link

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnome Alone View Post
    As it turns out I was thinking Ranger anyway for some reason, so Ranger it is.
    Rangers are the most damaging class in the game, so you're on solid ground there.

    Evasive Strike is decent but Fox's Cunning is better (out-of-turn attacks are great). Hunter's Bear Trap is not very impressive, but neither are the other ranger-1 dailies. Lethal Hunter is an okay feat but deals less damage than Weapon Focus.

    Yes, 22-point-buy is supposed to be weighted. That said, you should definitely try for an 18 dexterity, although you won't be able to also get an 18 wisdom. That's okay, wisdom is your secondary stat. Don't worry at all about strength or charisma on an archer ranger, they do pretty much nothing for you.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Springfield, MO
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Regarding "feeling munchkin-y", don't. 4E is designed from the outset that your character will be cool and do cool things even at level 1. None of the previous edition's "You're gonna be awesome later so you have to suck right now" philosophy. Also, the whole point of the point buy is to put everybody on equal footing. 4E places a great emphasis on class balance and making sure nobody in the party feels useless, and part of that is making sure you don't have one guy with nothing but 18s and one guy whose highest stat is a 12 or something.

    I agree with Kurald that you can ignore STR and CHA. Get an 18 in DEX, get a decent WIS at 14 or so, and probably put CON around 14 as well if you're that concerned about survival. You then have a decent score to boost each NAD (Fort, Ref, Will defenses) and those are all good stats to have. Since you seem to have trouble figuring out how the PB works, try this link for a 4E point buy calculater

    Are you allowed to take powers from other books? You didn't mention them, but if you are you should take Spitting Cobra Stance from Martial Power at 5. It lets you attack anything that moves within 5 squares of you, very awesome for an archer.
    Master Rahl guide us. Master Rahl teach us. Master Rahl protect us. In your light we thrive. In your mercy we are sheltered. In your wisdom we are humbled. We live to serve. Our lives are yours.

    Awesome Richard avatar by kpenguin!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Fallbot's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Lethal hunter was the first feat I took with my first ranger, but I have to agree with Kurald and say weapon focus is a better choice, especially in heroic tier when you're only rolling one die for quarry damage.

    The ranger handbook is worth looking at, if you haven't already.

    Shortbows are indeed d8. As a gnome you'd only be able to use a hand crossbow (I think. I'm not really familiar with the rules for small characters), which is the same prof, 1d6 damage and 10/20 range, so has nothing over a shortbow except potentially flavour.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    UTC -6

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Gnome is honestly one of the worse races you can pick for Ranger, actually. Its stats are in all the wrong places and the Small size hurts since you don't get the same free +1 AC/attack that you do in 3.5. The elf races, Humans, and Halflings are ones that I'd look at before Gnome for an archery ranger, since they can all get bonuses to Dexterity and aren't restricted in their weapon selection. (Except for the Halflings, but they get +Dex and a racial ability to force an enemy to reroll, so it's still better than just the one-shot invisibility power)

    Although you can ignore Strength, I still wouldn't put an 8 in it, since you never know if your DM will decide to use encumbrance and a penalty to Athletics isn't very helpful, especially since you're supposed to be wearing Hide armor, which gives another penalty. Train Athletics, by the way.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnome Alone's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Cat Food Island
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Yeah, I'm ditching the Gnome idea. Here I just wanted to be different, but nooooo. Sigh. I could live with plusses to dump stats, but the weapon restrictions on top of that are too much. So Elf it is, deadly, deadly stereotypical Elf.

    Thanks for the advice, everyone, on build choices and not feeling like a munchkin and such. I think I will take Weapon Focus and Fox's Cunning, those seem solid. Oh, and I can't take powers or anything from any source but the PHB.

    I still can't wrap my head around point-buy, though - I know it's weighted, but how? I tried using that calculator that was linked to and it said I couldn't do 18 Dex, 14 Wis and Con, so I'm a bit confused.
    Avatar by the one and only Ceika.
    "I'll be whatever I wanna do." - Philip J. Fry
    my fake wizard|my fake one-shot|my fake link

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Fallbot's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    You can get a total dex of 18 if you apply the unweighted +2 dex you get from being an elf - tick the +2s for dex and wis and then select 16 from the drop down menu, which should leave you easily able to buy your other scores up to 14.

    For reference it costs 1 to increase to 11, 2 for 12, 3 for 13, 5 for 14, 7 for 15, 9 for 16, 12 for 17 and 16 for 18. ...I'm allowed to post that, right?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Ozreth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Quote Originally Posted by Master_Rahl22 View Post
    None of the previous edition's "You're gonna be awesome later so you have to suck right now" philosophy.
    Don't make it sound like such a bad thing, some of us like starting off as humble farm boys setting off to a nearby cave in search of giant rats armed with nothing but big sticks and sleeping bags : p

    (sorry if i just started an edition war!)
    Last edited by Ozreth; 2011-02-23 at 03:03 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alleran View Post
    * I am no longer permitted to Wild Shape my druid into a bear riding a bear while summoning bears.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgar View Post
    Back when Dark Sun came out in '91, I was convinced that it was the Forgotten Realms, just 2000 or 3000 years in the future. I believed this because "Tyr" was both a god in Forgotten Realms and a City in Dark Sun. I thought that TSR was going to roll out some massive magical/psionic apocalypse that would kill Elminister, banish the FR Gods, and turn Faerun into a desert.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    tcrudisi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    For an elf ranger, I would advise starting with
    Str 8 or 10
    Con 11
    Dex 20
    Int 8 or 10
    Wis 16
    Cha 8 or 10

    Make one of the Str/Int/Cha trifecta an 8, the other two are 10's. I'm a big fan of the starting 18(+2 racial) for Rangers since that impacts hit, AC, and Reflex. Wis is very much your secondary stat and should not be neglected either. Con 11 really only helps once you hit level 11, but hey, at least it's +1 hp in the mean-time.
    Thank you Ceika for the wonderful Avatar avatar!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrudisi View Post
    For an elf ranger, I would advise starting with
    Dex 20
    This, oh so very much. You'll be glad you did.

    If an elf is a bit too cliched for you, consider that eladrin also make good rangers and get teleportation ability, and that halflings are also useful. Also, gnomes are better than you think: a good racial power has a much greater impact than having stat boosts that match your class.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    I'm a big fan of Gnomes, but the 4e Ranger is one of the worst matches possible. Small size for less weapon damage on your multiple [W] attacks, less speed for getting in and out of a situation, and bonuses in the stats that don't matter. If you want a magical race that has a trick up its sleeve, you might give Eladrin a try. The ability to teleport into a good position (or out of a bad on) is probably rather similar to what you had in mind for the Gnome to begin with.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    I'm a big fan of Gnomes, but the 4e Ranger is one of the worst matches possible. Small size for less weapon damage on your multiple [W] attacks, less speed for getting in and out of a situation, and bonuses in the stats that don't matter.
    However:
    (1) The ranger's damage comes not from the weapon damage die, but from static modifiers. You could dual wield daggers and still have huge damage output.
    (2) Speed is important for melee characters, much less for ranged.
    (3) Having bonuses in the wrong stats is unfortunate, but you can still easily get an 18 in your main stat.

    Also, Fade Away is a very useful (and fun, and iconic) ability. Don't discount mix-and-match races: 4E is more flexible than you think! Heck, the OP specified he didn't want to be munchkin-y; it's not like gnomes are bad at rangering. They're good at rangering. Not as good as elves, but still good. Try it.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Perhaps I am missing several new powers, but I see a lot of 3[W] and 4[W] attacks in the Ranger's selection. That isn't as big as the Barbarian's attacks, but it is a lot more common than for the Paladin (a class that I consider a good match for the Gnome). Rangers get some static bonus damage, true, but a Rogue gets far more and benefits more from Fade Away. Their use of daggers isn't affected by the Gnome's size, either.

    On that matter, Fade Away is far more interesting on, say, a Warlord - especially with the PHB2 feats that allow you to vanish an ally. Or cause the attacker to grand CA when you use it.

    As for how good a Gnome is at rangering, well... I would like to see another race that pairs worse with the Ranger. It is true that even the worst matchups in 4e are still quite useable characters, but that doesn't prevent it from being one of the worst class pairings for the Gnome.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    Perhaps I am missing several new powers, but I see a lot of 3[W] and 4[W] attacks in the Ranger's selection.
    Sure, but you also see a lot of "two or three attacks at 1[W] each" or "make an out-of-turn attack for 1[W]". Those tend to be the better powers, because they multiply your damage mods. It starts with Twin Strike. It doesn't matter much if you do 1d6+20 or 1d8+20, but it does matter if you do (2x 1d6)+20 or 2x (1d6+20).

    a Rogue gets far more and benefits more from Fade Away.
    Not particularly. The point of Fade Away is (1) that you don't get hit, and (2) that you get a free round of movement without OAs. That you get combat advantage is more useful to the ranged archer, because a (melee) rogue will already have CA in a variety of other ways. Even a non-gnome rogue has CA 95% of the time.

    As for how good a Gnome is at rangering, well... I would like to see another race that pairs worse with the Ranger.
    That's easy. Any race with a racial power that (1) sucks, or (2) only works in melee. For example, bullywugs, or minotaurs, or orcs.
    Also, surprisingly, a half-elf makes a pretty bad ranger. This is because half-elf is usually taken to add Twin Strike to another class; you don't need half-elf on a class that already has TS.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2011-02-23 at 07:12 PM.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    That's easy. Any race with a racial power that (1) sucks, or (2) only works in melee. For example, bullywugs, or minotaurs, or orcs.
    Also, surprisingly, a half-elf makes a pretty bad ranger. This is because half-elf is usually taken to add Twin Strike to another class; you don't need half-elf on a class that already has TS.
    Odd; I've played a Minotaur Druid with only 12 Strength, and I still found plenty of uses for his racial ability. They only appeared every three or four encounters, but it was still a very handy ability to have during those times.

    I'm sure I could find something useful for a Half-Elf Ranger, especially a ranged one that is at least as beneficial as turning invisible once after already receiving damage.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    Odd; I've played a Minotaur Druid with only 12 Strength, and I still found plenty of uses for his racial ability.
    Precisely my point. Since you have personal experience with playing a race with the "wrong" stat bumps and a seemingly unmatching racial power, you should not be so dismissive of the idea of a gnome ranger.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnome Alone's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Cat Food Island
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Precisely my point. Since you have personal experience with playing a race with the "wrong" stat bumps and a seemingly unmatching racial power, you should not be so dismissive of the idea of a gnome ranger.
    Indeed, I believe you have convinced me to stick with my original
    plan. Thanks. I do get caught up in the thrill of Ye Olde Min-Maxing sometimes but I really like unconventional things even if they're not "optimized.". I just got the PHB finally and am looking forward to making a bunch of characters to have something to choose from. Well, and for the thrill of doing it. Gotta be a wacky choice for a Tiefling out there somewhere.
    Avatar by the one and only Ceika.
    "I'll be whatever I wanna do." - Philip J. Fry
    my fake wizard|my fake one-shot|my fake link

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Springfield, MO
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    A Tiefling Fighter with feats from Martial Power and some Dragon stuff can actually be a decent choice.
    Master Rahl guide us. Master Rahl teach us. Master Rahl protect us. In your light we thrive. In your mercy we are sheltered. In your wisdom we are humbled. We live to serve. Our lives are yours.

    Awesome Richard avatar by kpenguin!

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Euphonistan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [4e] Gnome Ranger Build (warning: newbish)

    Just note in the recent update to gnomes they now can choose to have dex as a boosted stat which is nice for this gnome ranger.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •