To enforce no laptops/paper only at the risk of losing players?

[Pika...]

My group has a serious problem with this. Extremely disrespectful at times. The member currently DMing for his first time is having an even bigger time keeping it in check, and I when I start DMing again have pretty much had it. with people suddenly breaking down laughing at Motivational Posters or playing their own music/Youtube videos randomly. Expressions on players where clearly they are not paying attention to the acting DM, or just barely enough.

So, I know this would go down really bad with my group (except for the one who has to Skype in), but I feel at least for a while it would be needed.

Thoughts? Any experience with such situations?

[WarKitty]

What we ended up doing is instituting a rule that if you are not paying attention, you lose whatever action you could have taken. This includes being denied saving throws, not making AoO's, being helpless while the rest of the party paints you pink, etc. It doesn't stop people from using laptops, but it penalizes players who don't listen.

[Doc Roc]

Just turn off internet access, or hack up your routing table.

[Silus]

As the previously mentioned first-time-DM, I do not have a problem with people surfing the net. For the record, I have issue with people fething interrupting me when I'm trying to do some narration, but that's neither here nor there.

Personally, I figure that while computers may offer many distractions, we as players would just find something else to be distracted by without a laptop. Like myself, I'd probably start drawing during those sections that have nothing to do with my character (those little one person asides you're so fond of).

[Rankar]

If you lose players who become upset over asking them to not interrupt the session, then you're probably better off without them.

If you find out why they're constantly interrupting rather than paying attention, it might help resolve how to fix it without the blanket ban of computers.

[Pika...]

What we ended up doing is instituting a rule that if you are not paying attention, you lose whatever action you could have taken. This includes being denied saving throws, not making AoO's, being helpless while the rest of the party paints you pink, etc. It doesn't stop people from using laptops, but it penalizes players who don't listen.

This sounds like an idea worth trying for a session or two to see how it works.

Just turn off internet access, or hack up your routing table.

Where will hopefully be living there is an unlocked connect used by the group.

As the previously mentioned first-time-DM, I do not have a problem with people surfing the net. For the record, I have issue with people fething interrupting me when I'm trying to do some narration, but that's neither here nor there.

Personally, I figure that while computers may offer many distractions, we as players would just find something else to be distracted by without a laptop. Like myself, I'd probably start drawing during those sections that have nothing to do with my character (those little one person asides you're so fond of).

Really, from what I remember last session it got you ticked. One player started trying to recap what he should have fully been listening to.

And true, but doodling and such are much less attention grabbing and retaining.

And it happens WAY more than just on the character one-on-ones. Like oh-my-Corallel more.

If you lose players who become upset over asking them to not interrupt the session, then you're probably better off without them.

If you find out why they're constantly interrupting rather than paying attention, it might help resolve how to fix it without the blanket ban of computers.

Part could be due to the one-on-one, but a lot of it is just disrespectfulness b all parties. I make it a point to focus and even close/ignore my laptop during session, and other players' turns.

[Silus]

If you lose players who become upset over asking them to not interrupt the session, then you're probably better off without them.

If you find out why they're constantly browsing the internet rather than paying attention, it might help resolve how to fix it without the blanket ban of computers.

If I may, I have a reason for the browsing the internet, at least when Pika is DMing (I'm in his group).

While a great DM, he has the tendency to stick with one or two people when he gets going. They get their own little "side missions" which is usually centered around those character's background or aspirations. This tends to leave, at least in my experience, those that are not involved in a meaningful way as sort of....viewers. We get to see how things unfold for those characters, though our characters don't quite get a say. Now, as a player, I find this to be rather...boring. So what do I do? I amuse myself with what is at hand (usually the internet) until my character can come back in and be active.

Really, from what I remember last session it got you ticked. One player started trying to recap what he should have fully been listening to.

No, what ticked me off to no end was when I was trying to describe something and I'd get interrupted by that one player right in the middle, and more often than not, it was about something completely not related to what was happening.

[gbprime]

How about just ask that they not watch videos, post messages, chat, or email while in the game? That's not so hard.

Besides, those of us who have been gaming since before there was wireless internet will find SOMETHING else to do. Solitaire yahtzee, paint a miniature, design an Iron Chef entry...

[HunterOfJello]

Laptops and cell phones are a game killer that waste the time and efforts of everyone at the table. If you aren't willing to pay attention to what's happening in the game, then you shouldn't be there.

Players using laptops and cell phones ruined one of the groups I DMed for and led to the group getting dismantled.

Now I've been running a game for several months with the people from the previous group who didn't use their cell phones and laptops during the sessions.

[Pika...]

If I may, I have a reason for the browsing the internet, at least when Pika is DMing (I'm in his group).

While a great DM, he has the tendency to stick with one or two people when he gets going. They get their own little "side missions" which is usually centered around those character's background or aspirations. This tends to leave, at least in my experience, those that are not involved in a meaningful way as sort of....viewers. We get to see how things unfold for those characters, though our characters don't quite get a say. Now, as a player, I find this to be rather...boring. So what do I do? I amuse myself with what is at hand (usually the internet) until my character can come back in and be active.

Amusingly that is why I was debating not running after you leave.

Want to know why those two players are usually the only ones focused on? Because they take five minutes to write down the easy to complete one-sheet paper that gives me a background for them, and something to work with period as a DM.

Or at least we talk about the PC for a half-hour or so.

I have sent out the paper twice already, and nadda from anyone. Literally ten minutes ago I was thinking if no one came up with them again by at least two weeks to give me time to plan/world build I simply won't bother running. All I have is one payer's basic background, since he is helping me stat out his homebrew race and their history. So you would end up stuck following that PC story again all bored. I am trying people...

[Vladislav]

If I may, I have a reason for the browsing the internet, at least when Pika is DMing (I'm in his group).

While a great DM, he has the tendency to stick with one or two people when he gets going. They get their own little "side missions" which is usually centered around those character's background or aspirations. This tends to leave, at least in my experience, those that are not involved in a meaningful way as sort of....viewers.

In that case, laptops are not the problem. They are the sympthom.

Want to know why those two players are usually the only ones focused on? Because they take five minutes to write down the easy to complete one-sheet paper that gives me a background for them, and something to work with period as a DM.

That's ... not a good reason at all. If the majority of the players aren't interested in outlining their characters' aspirations and background, why do you, as the DM, have to doggedly focus on this aspect of play? Can't they do something that's not related to their background? Can't they, I dunno, rescue the princess, slay the dragon, save the world, whatever generic heroes do?

Saying "I'll punish those who didn't do their homework by turning them into spectators for the session" is just ... for lack of better word, weak.

[Silus]

In that case, laptops are not the problem. They are the sympthom.

That's ... not a good reason at all. If the majority of the players aren't interested in outlining their characters' aspirations and background, why do you, as the DM, have to doggedly focus on this aspect of play? Can't they do something that's not related to their background? Can't they, I dunno, rescue the princess, slay the dragon, save the world, whatever generic heroes do?

Saying "I'll punish those who didn't do their homework by turning them into spectators for the session" is just ... for lack of better word, weak.

The main problem is that our characters rarely last for longer than a few sessions. I kid you not, first two characters I made for his game had backstories. First was a Human Half-Machine Ranger. I wrote up a two page backstory for her. She was dead by session two and nothing was explored at all with her backstory. Second, a Dwarf Fighter from a merc company. Didn't even get to fight with him 'cause at the end of the session, we all became Gods and I had to retire him.

[MightyPirate]

Sounds like a bad case of this, but not just in combat. I'd recommend talking to your players about the distractions and verifying the problem.

You may want to start by saying that you're thinking about the restriction, telling the players why it's a problem and asking them if they have any ideas to deal with the issue instead of outright banning computers.

Also, try to get the party to work as a team and give them as many reasons to care about their comrade's goals as you feasibly can.

EDIT: No background provided for a certain PC? You should have fun with it:

Spoiler

Show

[Pika...]

That's ... not a good reason at all. If the majority of the players aren't interested in outlining their characters' aspirations and background, why do you, as the DM, have to doggedly focus on this aspect of play? Can't they do something that's not related to their background? Can't they, I dunno, rescue the princess, slay the dragon, save the world, whatever generic heroes do?

Saying "I'll punish those who didn't do their homework by turning them into spectators for the session" is just ... for lack of better word, weak.

I see your point.

The problem is, I find I have little to work with with characters who basically have no past/history/identity. Plus, those players who give me a background/nemesis/family/etc I can weave all that into my homebrewed world so the players/PCs who gave it to me to explore. Naturally player X and player Y who worked on their characters are gonna want to do this, so they do and the campaigns end up focusing on them as the players who just made some random adventurers just end up coming along for the ride.

Think you have the main characters with tons of history, canon, and fluff to work with in Star Trek on away missions, and you have the random crew members in the away mission. Who am I going to weave the plot around more? Naturally on the fly the ones I have more to work with.

The main problem is that our characters rarely last for longer than a few sessions. I kid you not, first two characters I made for his game had backstories. First was a Human Half-Machine Ranger. I wrote up a two page backstory for her. She was dead by session two and nothing was explored at all with her backstory. Second, a Dwarf Fighter from a merc company. Didn't even get to fight with him 'cause at the end of the session, we all became Gods and I had to retire him.

Yes, true, but even other party members agreed it was just bad luck for you. I mean really bad. I am currently working on making the game less leathel, though. Also, I had big plans for your cyborg girl. Oh boy did I. So it would have been explored.

[Safety Sword]

Sounds like this is a bit more personal than just laptops at the table. You guys don't seem to like each others DM/player styles.

I hope you had a pre-nup. Sounds like it's about to get nasty

[Innis Cabal]

I think this problem should be discussed by your players on your players time and that it's entirely inappropriate to carry an argument between two players over the forums when it should be settled in person.

[Darakonis]

If they are interrupting gameplay (say, to make people watch a YouTube video or look at a demotivational poster), then you need to take a proactive approach.

Make a house rule: every 30/60 minutes, we'll take a 5-minute break, during which we can talk about stuff unrelated to the game as people go to the washroom/grab drinks. Outside of break time, no one is allowed to bring up things unrelated to the game.

If they are just not paying attention, as has been mentioned, they'll find other ways to not pay attention, laptop or not. I started DMing when laptops were just "those portable computers you hear about," and trust me, people can distract themselves well enough with pencil and paper.

My rule? I don't repeat myself. You weren't paying attention? Tough luck. Oh, you didn't know you were standing in front of the King when you just drew your sword? That's a shame; you probably should have been paying attention.

A couple bad experiences, and you'll see how people start paying closer attention.

Peace,
-Darakonis

[arguskos]

I think this problem should be discussed by your players on your players time and that it's entirely inappropriate to carry an argument between two players over the forums when it should be settled in person.

Agreed. This is becoming a slap-fight on the interwebs, when it should be handled face to face on your time. This is not the venue for such things.

[Pika...]

Sounds like a bad case of this, but not just in combat. I'd recommend talking to your players about the distractions and verifying the problem.

You may want to start by saying that you're thinking about the restriction, telling the players why it's a problem and asking them if they have any ideas to deal with the issue instead of outright banning computers.

Also, try to get the party to work as a team and give them as many reasons to care about their comrade's goals as you feasibly can.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I admit I am far from a veteran DM, so I need to work on this issue. I still want to focus heavily on character's stories/journey's , though.


ps. All my players on these boards please read this an give me your opinions.


edit:

Agreed. This is becoming a slap-fight on the interwebs, when it should be handled face to face on your time. This is not the venue for such things.

Fight?

I was finding my players comments extremely non-offensive and all the comments useful. Maybe I am partly to blame for this, and this thread is proving very useful to diagnose the real issues at play.


Still, it does not explain why it is done at all our DMs' games?

[TurtleKing]

At least you have found a way to occupy yourself during those times.

Edit: Don't let a player trying to grab the DM's attention for the past X minutes happen. When that happens things go down hill. For instance when I am yelling to be noticed at 2 in the morning waking up the neighbors or preventing them from sleeping. For instance in our group's last pirate session with two party members tangled up with each other trying to stop the fuse to a lot gunpowder from blowing up taking up ten minutes. My character with his breath attack was trying to melt the side of the boat so it could start sinking resulting in at least a smaller explosion. Which only happened because I finally got his attention by you two stepping outside. SO Pika and Silus quit hogging all of the DM's attention, and maybe you will see I am not as quiet as I seem to be. My 2cp

[Silus]

Still, it does not explain why it is done at all our DMs' games?

Mostly browsing occurs when people begin checking rules or abilities or something where we have to put the game on hold. And there always comes that time where the one looking up the stuff turns to those ******* around and...requests that they pay attention, even though the game is on hold for rules.

[TurtleKing]

Simple answer to looking up rules is find all of the necessary ones like your spells, feats, skills, methods of movement/ attack/ damage, and saves that pertain to your character before hand in a convenient way for quick reference.

Edit: Also something me and Pika found out is if the site you use for your character sheet is not working you are out of luck. Best way around this to have multiple versions in different forms. Has anyone seen HungerIvan lately?

[cupkeyk]

What we ended up doing is instituting a rule that if you are not paying attention, you lose whatever action you could have taken. This includes being denied saving throws, not making AoO's, being helpless while the rest of the party paints you pink, etc. It doesn't stop people from using laptops, but it penalizes players who don't listen.

This is also enforced in our tables but not because of laptops. It's because another player and myself were always drunk.

[Lawless III]

What we ended up doing is instituting a rule that if you are not paying attention, you lose whatever action you could have taken. This includes being denied saving throws, not making AoO's, being helpless while the rest of the party paints you pink, etc. It doesn't stop people from using laptops, but it penalizes players who don't listen.

This has always been my groups unofficial rule. Maybe I'm just a jerk, but I assume people who are staring slack-jawed at their computers are just roleplaying their zoned out characters.

[lokoone]

My DM uses the following rule,
if you are not paying attention she says: "stop doing whatever you are doing or you are dead"
if you dont hear/ dont pay attention... well your character is dead..

[The Big Dice]

If your players don't reapect you enough to turn electronic devices off at the gaming table, do you really want them sat at said table?

[Tyndmyr]

IMO, allow a certain period of screwing around time before the game starts. Whatever works for your group. However, once the game starts, laptops and such get put away. They can be a huge distraction.

Giving people time to be goofy and get it out of their system can be good, but you also need to balance that with the fact that ya'll did get together to actually play the game.

[Erom]

Personally, as a DM, I'm of the opinion that people will always find ways to distract themselves, and if your players aren't paying attention it is basically always the DM's fault. Game is boring. Make it more interesting.

If you take away laptops people are just going to twiddle on their phones or talk to each other, if you take away even that, people are just going to doodle or daydream. You can't FORCE people to be interested in the game if the game isn't interesting.

[big teej]

it seems to me that there are really 2 problems at hand.

1. the laptop issue - my kneejerk reaction to the title of the thread was "if I can't use my laptop, I'm not playing." my handwriting is crap, and I am not copying down all the information I keep on my computer onto a piece of paper.

after reading the thread, I feel that you should just make it abundantly clear that outside of certain circumstances. youtube and stuff doesn't fly in session, and unless you're using your laptop to keep track of your charactersheet like I do. you're laptop SHOULD NOT BE PRESENT

opportunity makes the thief.

2. some personal issues between silus and pika IRL...
I'm not quite sure this is something we (or at least I) can help with.

I feel that y'all should really meet up IRL and talk it out (in a calm, mature, constructive manner) as opposed to snipeing at each other on here.

class is about to start so I didn't have time to read the whole thread
but I will asap
promise

[valadil]

people suddenly breaking down laughing at Motivational Posters or playing their own music/Youtube videos randomly.

This crosses a line. I don't think that level of disruption is ever appropriate in a game. If someone wants to remove themselves while checking email or facebook or something, fine. I'd be lying if I said I never played Angry Birds during game. But I do that sort of thing when I'm out of the spotlight and only when it doesn't distract anyone else. Sometimes even a long combat is enough to drive me to my iPhone.

I do think you'd be within your rights to ban electronics at the game table. But if you do so you should make an effort to keep everyone in the scene all the time. It's not fair if a player has to sit out for an hour and isn't allowed to entertain himself.

How's this for a compromise with your players? Laptops stay closed when the player is in a scene and volume is muted. But people can entertain themselves when their characters aren't busy.