"I must know TELL ME!"

**TurtleKing** · 2011-02-26, 06:09 AM (ISO 8601)

Okay as the title might suggest one of the characters I may play coming up wants knowledge. So far I was thinking of going Illumian with Krau and Naen sigils. The class being Diviner varient Focus Caster level 3 from Dragon Magazine #348 using the Talisman of Boccob divine symbol as the focus. I am currently looking at a caster level of 5 for the non Divination spells with Divination 2 higher. Not sure what school to ban so your thoughts on which one to ban would be appreciated. I am also grabbing Insightful Divination, Knowledge Devotion, and Magic Sensitive Reserve feat. I am not sure of what else to grab that would be useful in terms of feats. My current stats in no particular order are 12, 13, 13, 13, 12, 14 with the ability to distribute 3 points among the stats.

So my question is how might I improve this character even further than what I have already done. I am not wanting to multiclass out till after 7th level.

**tuesdayscoming** · 2011-02-26, 06:18 AM (ISO 8601)

Evocation is probably the best bet for your banned school. In terms of flavor, rampant destruction is pretty incompatible with the pursuit of knowledge. Plus, evocation is widely regarded as the weakest of the schools, so hey, no real loss.

Also, you might want to edit those stats a bit. As is you really aren't getting a substantial bonus from any of your ability scores, and for your character concept, a high intelligence is going to help you a heck of a lot more than a low strength is going to hurt you.

edit: This is, of course, assuming that you are free to edit your ability scores.

**TurtleKing** · 2011-02-26, 06:34 AM (ISO 8601)

I can add upto 3 to any one stat or split up the points. The Naen sigil basically increases my Intelligence. With everything combined I could have a 19 right now.

Main reason I am going Divination is thanks to Dominic Deegan web comic. My character will however be a bit different as I try to get my group to use the affiliation rules. By doing this I become affiliated with a few organizations gaining the benefits. Another factor is the main enemy in the campaign will based off of the Slivers from Magic the Gathering. As tactics are being used against them they adapt. So going divination is for researching their defenses and weaknesses to destroy them.

**Fhaolan** · 2011-02-26, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)

I was given an interesting suggestion once. For this kind of character, I was told to start as a Bard for the skill points and the Bardic Knowledge, then go Diviner, then go Loremaster.

Gets the whole 'I know *everything*' with multiple paths to knowledge. It worked well, but it was 3.0, so it may not be a good with more current sources.

**TurtleKing** · 2011-02-26, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)

I was wondering how would a four level dip into Factotum help me. That would decrease the spells I can cast. The up side is getting a bonus equal to my Intelligence to Dexterity and Strength checks. If not that are their any other ways to use my Intillegence to boost my other stats.

**Vknight** · 2011-02-26, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)

Also your Dex should not be something you need to worry about with stuff like 'Mental Reflexes' (Forgets Book) it lets you use Int mod instead of you Dex for Reflex.

I would suggest Bard as well for the usefullness of Bardic Knowledge.

**tuesdayscoming** · 2011-02-26, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)

Intelligence

Spoiler

Show

{table=head]Name | Type | Book |

Page #

|

Edition

225

|

3.0

17

|

3.5

| AC | Limited by class level
Darkrunner 3 | PrC | Lords of Madness |

187

|

3.5

187

|

3.5

?

|

3.0

60

|

3.5

| attack, save, skill, or level check| Limited times per day
Duelist 1 | PrC | DMG |

185

|

3.5

| AC | Limited by class level
Eternal Blade 1 | PrC | Tome of Battle |

110

|

3.5

110

|

3.5

110

|

3.5

| AC | Dodge bonus, Swift Action
Exemplar 8 | PrC | Complete Adventurer |

44

|

3.5

44

|

3.5

14

|

3.5

14

|

3.5

14

|

3.5

14

|

3.5

14

|

3.5

14

|

3.5

14

|

3.5

| AC | Dodge bonus
Iaijutsu Master 1 | PrC | Oriental Adventures |

41

|

3.0

63

|

3.5

44

|

3.5

| AC | Limited by class level
Mantis Mercenary 5 | PrC | Oriental Adventures |

231

|

3.0

| AC | vs. Dodge feat foe only
Montebank 1 | PrC | Complete Scoundrel |

57

|

3.5

NA

|

3.5

101

|

3.5

11

|

3.5

NA

|

3.5

22

|

3.5

22

|

3.5

22

|

3.5

22

|

3.5

22

|

3.5

22

|

3.5

115

|

3.5

28

|

3.5

58

|

3.5

110

|

3.5

38

|

3.5

71

|

3.5

54

|

3.5

86

|

3.5

86

|

3.5

86

|

3.5

220

|

3.5

220

|

3.5

238

|

3.5

238

|

3.5

| Damage | -
[/table]

That should help

edit: ~~WHOOPS! Give me one second to fix~~ There we go, much better.

**TurtleKing** · 2011-02-26, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)

So after looking at that list of yours I was thinking of my build looking like this. Illumian Diviner Focus Caster 7 Factotum 3 Loredelver 10. I may get the feats that replace my DEX and WIS with my INT if need be. I may also grab Enhanced Sigils feat for an even higher INT and caster level. This could result in a character who knows what he is fighting and just how to fight it.

**Vknight** · 2011-02-26, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)

And then using his mind he causes the creature to regret it existence and go crawling away to kill itself.

**TurtleKing** · 2011-02-26, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)

I just thought of a way of increasing my divination capabilities even further without giving up my 9th level spells. In return I don't gain all of the INT synergies that I would have gotten from Factotum. If DM allowing might go Voyeuristic Seer. *evades attacks* This however keeps me from Loredelver so I look to another prestige class or just continue with the Diviner Focus Caster getting access to the 15th level benefit of 1+ INT modifer to saves vs divinations. So I become good at fighting because I know what it is, or do I become really good at peeping?

**Daftendirekt** · 2011-02-26, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Vknight

Also your Dex should not be something you need to worry about with stuff like 'Mental Reflexes' (Forgets Book) it lets you use Int mod instead of you Dex for Reflex.

I would suggest Bard as well for the usefullness of Bardic Knowledge.

It is Insightful Reflexes, actually. CAdv110.

**Vknight** · 2011-02-26, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)

Thanks Annulus, so its in CA. Also thanks for the correction that will make it easier to find in my books.

**TurtleKing** · 2011-02-26, 08:32 PM (ISO 8601)

Some holes have been shot in my build or not. Another build that has popped up is Diviner 3/ Cleric 3/ MT 10/ Diviner 4 resulting in Diviner 7/ Cleric 3/ MT 10. I get a small number of 9th level arcane spells and 7th level divine spells. With Enhanced Sigils my Cleric casting can get to CL 16, and my Diviner casting for all of my spells can get to over CL 20. After level 6 I may not go straight MT so as to get my bonuses from Diviner. Will be getting Boccob as my Deity getting Knowledge and Magic since I am already using him for my other classes. So what do you guys think of this build option?

Edit: Bad math.

Edit: Decided to go with Cloistered Cleric for the extra skill points. Looking into also getting a feat that lets me swap spells back and forth between the classes at a -1 CL. Basically letting me to cast a divine Fireball. The school that I have banned is Abjuration since a lot of divine spells are abjuration. Any new comments on this build?

**TurtleKing** · 2011-02-27, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)

New things have come up. Dragon Magazine is not allowed so some of that is no longer allowed. What is happening is I am gestalting much to the DM's encouragement. I am not sure what build I may go with, but may go with my first build or something similar. So do I go with the first build for INT synergies, or the third build for tons of spells.

**Vknight** · 2011-02-27, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)

Don't worry its ok that you lost Dragon you can still use some of the various things suggested.

**TurtleKing** · 2011-02-28, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)

I am noticing that one of my sigils does not work for me considering I am not multiclassing into one of the non casters. So I am wondering how about going Warforged Artificer along with Diviner as my gestalt. I was debating going one or the other in the beginning, but now I may be able to go both. I am leaning away from MT since someone else in the party may go that route. So right now I am either aiming for a gestalt of Diviner/Factotum Loredelver or Loremaster depending on if I keep my race or switch to another. If I go with the new build what prestige classes play off of Artificer? The DM wants the players to munchkin since are going up against a highly adaptable ecological disaster.

**TurtleKing** · 2011-02-28, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)

Alright I am unsure of what would be fun with my stats. I want a gestalt that can use my stats without having to use magic items to get spell levels. The other caster in the group is probably a venerable kobold with only 3 STR that will have an undead army as the group healer. His are INT 16, WIS 18, and CHA 22. I don't want to step on the other group members toes.

So I'm curious as to what are some good gestalt builds that are doable. Bonus if the two classes being casters use the same stat for casting.

Edit: Stats are not set in stone and can spread 3 points between them. Now currently looking into Charisma as my casting stat since I heard there is a lot of synergy with it.

Edit: I have been doing some more looking and thinking of going Warmage/ Shujenga Geomancer. Both classes use Charisma as the casting stat so I could start of with a 17 in Charisma, and just increase it twice.

**TurtleKing** · 2011-03-01, 07:36 AM (ISO 8601)

Okay after some looking around I think my first character will actually be a Killoren Warmage/ Shugenja fire focused going Geomancer. What feats would be useful for this build? The DM also wants a few backup characters also set up. So what gestalts that good for a character about knowledge, and another about crafting.

Please do post something constructive than just looking.

**Swooper** · 2011-03-01, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)

Regarding the initial concept, two things:

There's a Gnome-only feat in Races of Stone called Trivial Knowledge. It lets you roll every knowledge check twice, picking the better result. You said Illumian, but I thought I'd mention it anyway if you weren't stuck on that concept.

Secondly, make sure to grab the Collector of Stories skill trick from Complete Scoundrel. +5 to all knowledge checks about creatures at the low, low cost of two skill points.

**TurtleKing** · 2011-03-01, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)

Thanks! Sounds good on using gnomes considering they are one of my favorite races. The only problem is I hope the player playing the kobold general of an undead army is no longer playing it. Though this hasn't stopped another from playing a Whisper Gnome Rogue/ something. Would be also grabbing also Knowledge Devotion so I can hit harder. The Illumian was for multiclassing, but in a gestalt game some of the sigil combinations become mute.

Classes and PrC work well toward knowledge and divinations?

Also what would cor crafting? I know of some gnome only PrC that are crafting based.

**arguskos** · 2011-03-01, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)

If you want to go all out for knowledge generation, I suggest the following (warning: what follows is not optimized in the slightest, but it is fun).

Savant 1 (Dragon Compendium)/Bard 1/Focused Diviner 5/Loremaster 2/Divine Oracle 3/whatever 8 (probably more Loremaster or Divine Oracle).

You get *three* bardic knowledge skills (Academic Lore from Savant, BK from Bard, Lore from Loremaster), you get the divination reroll ability from D.Oracle, and all the delicious Cleric divinations via Oracle Domain. It's about as knowledge focused as I can think off of the top of my head. The best part is that if you're careful, you can still end up with 9ths.

**Swooper** · 2011-03-01, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)

I'm currently playing a walking encyclopaedia type of guy in a gestalt game. Gnome Archivist//Factotum, Knowledge Devotion, Trivial Knowledge, Archivist of Nature, Draconic Archivist, Collector of Stories and just about every relevant knowledge skill maxed out. Was going to focus mostly on divinations but I turned out to be the party's primary divine caster so I went for more support casting stuff...

Anyway, take a look at Archivist, they have this Dark Knowledge class feature you may like.

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