Cha 11? [3.5]

[Zaq]

Why, conceptually or mechanically, should the Dragontouched feat have a prereq of 11 CHA? I just noticed that, and it's kind of baffling to me. (Kind of annoying, too, but mostly it's just baffling.) Can you think of any reason why it would be necessary to slap that kind of prereq on it, or is this up there with the +1 BAB prereq on Weapon Finesse (but not on Power Attack)?

In fact, are there any other feats that require 11 CHA? Seriously, that's weird.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

This is a game that has a phantom hippopotamus bite you in a feat description. A low stat requirement is the least of your worries.

Welcome to this completely free and open boa

[Amnestic]

Charisma represents a number of things, but most people seem to think of it as 'Force of Personality' (Backed up by the feat of the same name). As such, you need a certain amount of this force to manifest your draconic heritage (though not that feat). Without the charisma, a person who might have that touch of dragonblood in their veins might never realise and never have it manifest. With it the charisma, they can draw on their latent bloodline and bring it to bear.

Or something. That's my explanation. If you don't like the requirement, remove it.

[Psyren]

Hidden Talent, to use the power you gain without having levels in a manifesting class. But the other benefits of the feat - making you psionic and giving you a PP reserve - function regardless of your Cha level.

Welcome to this completely free and open boa

"boa?"

[SurlySeraph]

Board. If you look at "Find More Posts," you'll find that PBMC quite often doesn't finish writing wor

[Thurbane]

Combat Expertise: Int 13+.

OK, I see the reasoning...but basically unless a warrior-type is of above average IQ, you cut off an entire chain of combat feats to him.

Board. If you look at "Find More Posts," you'll find that PBMC quite often doesn't finish writing wor

No no no - he was talking about the great mystcial constrictor that runs this forum!

[Gnome Alone]

Combat Expertise: Int 13+.

OK, I see the reasoning...but basically unless a warrior-type is of above average IQ, you cut off an entire chain of combat feats to him.

Johnny Fighter shed a single tear as Ye Olde Guidance Counselor told him that he would not be allowed to attend the AP Combat Expertise class, and suggested Metal Shop to him instead.

[Volthawk]

Charisma represents a number of things, but most people seem to think of it as 'Force of Personality' (Backed up by the feat of the same name). As such, you need a certain amount of this force to manifest your draconic heritage (though not that feat). Without the charisma, a person who might have that touch of dragonblood in their veins might never realise and never have it manifest. With it the charisma, they can draw on their latent bloodline and bring it to bear.

Or something. That's my explanation. If you don't like the requirement, remove it.

Yeah, pretty much this. WoTC had a general theme of dragons=charisma (See sorcerers, spellscales, Dragontouched, DFAs using Charisma to determine invocation DCs, a few other draconic feats). Then again, it's more 'powerful=charisma (see demons, devils, dragons, celestials, abominations, etc)

No no no - he was talking about the great mystcial constrictor that runs this forum!

Oh, that guy.

[stainboy]

If Dragontouched has Cha 11 as a prerequisite, then Charisma damage can cause you to lose the Dragonblood subtype. If you're playing with the retarded rule about losing prereqs, a feat that changes your race, type, or subtype probably shouldn't have prereqs.

[Daftendirekt]

I find it odd that it's only 11. Seems like 13 is the default ability score requirement for feats, except for a few 15s like with TWF.

[Zaq]

I find it odd that it's only 11. Seems like 13 is the default ability score requirement for feats, except for a few 15s like with TWF.

See, that's what I mean. I can't think of anything else that actually has a prereq of 11 CHA—or, indeed, 11 anything (sure, there are a few things that require 11 CHA to use, but not too many that require 11 CHA to take). It's weird and kind of arbitrary (not to mention that it pretty much hoses a character idea I had—kind of a dumb idea anyway, but still).

"Why CHA?" is fairly easy to answer (it's a stupid reason if you ask me, but I can kind of see it, even if I don't like it). "Why 11?" is much trickier. Hell, 11's kind of a hard number to get. When's the last time you allocated a point buy in such a way to leave a stat at 11? You don't want 11. You want 10 (if you don't care), 8 (if you really don't care), or 12+ (if you ever intend to use it). 13, at least, is a standard prereq number (I bet you can find at least one feat per stat that requires 13 in that stat), but 11 is just out of left field.

[Daftendirekt]

Only thing I can think of is you need 11 to cast 1st level Sorcerer spells, which I guess could be seen as the "bare minimum of draconic-ness"

[lightningcat]

My best guess for the Cha 11 prerequisite: it is the lowest possible Charisma for a sorcerer. As a Cha 11 allows the use of 1st level spells.
Yes, you could have a 10 and only use 0th level spells. But what would be the point? But I agree with Amnestic's logic on the why.

EDIT: darn ninjas

[pres_man]

My best guess for the Cha 11 prerequisite: it is the lowest possible Charisma for a sorcerer. As a Cha 11 allows the use of 1st level spells.
Yes, you could have a 10 and only use 0th level spells. But what would be the point? But I agree with Amnestic's logic on the why.

EDIT: darn ninjas

Well feats always have odd stat requirements, so that is why 11 would be chosen over 10.